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Power For Grinder

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Posts: 78
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Hi everybody,

It's nearing time for me to get a real grinder. I have a few questions about the power cord options. The grinder I'm looking at (TW-90 if it makes any difference to the discussion) allows for a choice of either a 110v or 220v power cord. I have come to understand that, if possible, 220 is almost always the way to go. I do my grinding at my apartment, so if I got a 220v cord, it would have to be plugged into my dryer outlet, about 25 feet away. Now, my understanding of power and cables is pretty limited, but I have heard that over distance, power is lost traveling along a cable. So, my question is: would it be better to go with the 220 and plug it in far away, or get a 110 and plug it in right there? Also, would an extension cord that would fit that type of outlet be readily available?

Many thanks for your help!

Tim

 
Posted : 06/05/2017 3:20 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 749
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

You didn't mention the HP on the motor. That has a lot to do with it. There is a plate on the motor (a label) that tells the amp draw at both 110V and 220V. That is the place to start.

There is a rectangular box on most motors that has a lid with 4 screws.... this is where the connection wiring is, and it is also where the motor is wired/configured for 110V or 220V operation. By wiring different combinations of wires together that are inside that box, the motor can be made to run off EITHER 110v or 220V (NOT BOTH). Instructions are either on the plate/label on the motor, or inside the lid of that wiring box.

If you go 110V, then you need to be concerned if the outlet(s) you intend to use will handle the maximum apms of the motor (max app draw generally occurs when you start the motor). It's common for most household outlets to be a 15 amp max. load, so if the amps the motor draws on 110V is more then that, you're either going to burn up the outlet, or at the very least trip a breaker. So, to safely run the grinder on 110V, you need to know the amp draw of the motor when it's wired for 110V, the amp rating on the outlet(s) you intend to use, and the size of the circuit breaker that runs the outlet(s).

USUALLY, a dryer circuit/outlet/breaker is 220V/30 amps, more then enough to run the grinder. For the length you mentioned (25ft), you're going to want to use AT LEAST 12 gauge wire for the cord, but personally I would go with 10 gauge. You're likely not going to find a ready made cord that has the ends you need on it. I suspect you'd either have to buy the pieces and build it yourself, or else over pay to have someone build it for you.

This might sound dumb, but please tell me you are not grinding inside an apartment... that is a recipe for disaster.

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 06/05/2017 8:51 pm
Posts: 78
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Topic starter
 

I appreciate the information Ed. I have yet to make the purchase, so I will be able to find out the details on amps for the grinder and outlets ahead of time. Thanks for explaining it to me! I do my grinding on the patio of the apartment, perhaps a slightly lower risk of disaster <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

 
Posted : 07/05/2017 9:27 am
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 749
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

Thanks for understanding that I wasn't trying to be demeaning! I know we all have to do what we have to do.

Also, I hope I didn't over simplify the explanation about the power.... I tried to interpret the tenor of your question, and give the most complete info I could.

I doubt that this would be possible in your working situation/environment, but one of the keys to getting the most out of a grinder is to have it solidly mounted, and at the correct height for the user (you).

Once you find the power requirements of the motor you intend to get, let us know, and we can give you more complete advice.

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 08/05/2017 8:15 am
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

Not to be purposely argumentative, but 12 awg (gauge) wire is only rated for 20 amps. 30 amps requires 10 awg wire. I wouldn't worry about 25 feet causing a voltage drop either. The dryer receptacle is probably a lot further than 25 feet from the electrical panel. In general, significant voltage drops occur over very large distances and are inversely proportional to the resistance in the line. Without getting too technical, the equation is: V=IR, where V is the voltage, I is the current (amps) and R is resistance in the line. Copper wire has a very low resistance value. It is also counter intuitive that the larger diameter the wire, the less resistance it has. Resistance is directly proportional to heat generation. Smaller wire heats up faster and produces more resistance faster as well. Skinnier wire over the same distance as a fatter wire carries less voltage than the fatter wire.

For that 30A dryer circuit, you would probably have to run at least a 100 foot extension cord of 10 awg before you saw any significant voltage drop.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 09/05/2017 10:02 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 749
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

I doubt a grinder motor is going to pull 20amps...... even my 3hp/220V motors only pull 8.3amps at startup. It's not the amp rating of the circuit..... it's the draw that I based the wire size on.

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 11/05/2017 12:14 pm
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

I understand that Ed and it is perfectly reasonable to use that methodology. However, the breaker at the other end is designed to trip should the load ever exceed 30 amps. By using a wire size not sufficient for the breaker size, you do run the risk of overheating the wire before tripping the breaker. Exactly what the system is designed to prevent. So, it always is best to size the components in the line for the breaker size, not the equipment size. That way, should you ever acquire another piece of equipment that has a higher draw, you can use the same cord. Also, if the piece of equipment malfunctions, shorts out or otherwise decides to pull more than the 20 amps the cord is rated for, the breaker will trip before the wire burns.

Sorry, I'm a building code official in my day job. I just blurt this stuff out because I think it's a safety thing.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 11/05/2017 10:33 pm
Posts: 78
Member
Topic starter
 

Again, I really appreciate the help. It seems this advice leads to the selection of the 220v cord option and an endeavor to obtain, or have made, an extension cord of at least 10 awg. Sorry to keep bothering with such inquiries, but, If I were needing to have a cord made, would y'all have any recommendations on where to get that done?

 
Posted : 12/05/2017 9:28 pm
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

|quoted:

Again, I really appreciate the help. It seems this advice leads to the selection of the 220v cord option and an endeavor to obtain, or have made, an extension cord of at least 10 awg. Sorry to keep bothering with such inquiries, but, If I were needing to have a cord made, would y'all have any recommendations on where to get that done?

Pretty simple to do yourself, if you have a decent hardware store (ACE or TrueValue)or big box home improvement store (Home Depot or Lowes) nearby. You would need a male plug that fits the dryer receptacle, a female that fits the male plug on the grinder, and an appropriate length of either 10/3 or 10/4 wire depending on whether the grinder needs a neutral or just uses two hot legs and a ground. The only tools you will need are a sharp blade (or a razor blade)to trim the sheathing and casing off of the wire and a screw driver. Is the dryer receptacle 3 or 4 prong? What plug comes with the grinder?

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 12/05/2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 78
Member
Topic starter
 

Sounds good. The dryer receptacle is 4 prong. I'm not sure about the grinder plug. I guess I'll see when I order it. I think I've seen the 10 awg wire for sale at a home depot nearby. And worse comes to worse, if I have to, I bet I can order the plugs off of Amazon. Since the grinder is recently made, I would assume it would also be a 4 prong situation. So, I imagine a 10/4 wire would be in order in any case. I've had a small bit of experience wiring a car audio system, so I think this is something I'd feel comfortable undertaking myself. Thanks for the advice!

 
Posted : 14/05/2017 3:58 pm
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

|quoted:

Sounds good. The dryer receptacle is 4 prong. I'm not sure about the grinder plug. I guess I'll see when I order it. I think I've seen the 10 awg wire for sale at a home depot nearby. And worse comes to worse, if I have to, I bet I can order the plugs off of Amazon. Since the grinder is recently made, I would assume it would also be a 4 prong situation. So, I imagine a 10/4 wire would be in order in any case. I've had a small bit of experience wiring a car audio system, so I think this is something I'd feel comfortable undertaking myself. Thanks for the advice!

When you get the grinder, send me a PM with a pic of the plug and the dryer receptacle. I'll walk you through the cord. Chances are good the grinder may be 3 prong rather than 4. If it's 4 prong, no problem it's a simple wire up job.

If it is only 3, then 10/3 is what you will buy. You will jump the ground to neutral at the 4-prong plug.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 16/05/2017 11:42 pm
Posts: 78
Member
Topic starter
 

Joshua, I'm really thankful for the help! I'll probably put the order in next month, then it will be an estimated 4-6 week shipping timeframe. I'll give you a holler when I've got it. I appreciate it buddy!

 
Posted : 17/05/2017 6:17 pm
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