Hi, in addition to riverside machine, forging presses are being made by: Tommy Mcnabb at Carolinaknives.com, Ron Claiborn info available through hightemptools.com. Last I heard the imagination xpress is still being made but no longer by Jeff Carlisle. You can contact him at [email protected] to find info on the current builder. As far as I know these are the only presses being made comercially, although many people make their own. I have not used any so can not comment as to if one is better than the other. I'm sure someone else will have some input. Are you thinking press instead of hammer now? or both?

Thanks Justin. I'll definitely check into those. I learned to make knives and damascus using both, so I'm thinking both at this time. What's your preference?

zack

I think the question of Press or Hammer, is going to depend greatly on each individual's situation. Mainly WHERE you live, and which is compatible with your location? Neighbors often don't take kindly to a power hammer in use. In this situation a press would be a "best option" scenario.

As far as what you can do with each....personally, I could not do without either. I consider the press as my "precision", and the air hammer as my "speed". I can do things with each, that I simply cannot do with the other. I suppose you could say that having both has pretty much spoiled me. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

OK, that being said, if a person could have only one of the two, I would probably lean towards the press.

Zack I don't have either at this point but have been leaning towards a hammer, most likely the Say-mak, though I am giving strong consideration to the Iron-Kiss. That said it all depends on money for me, I am waiting for the sale of a piece of property, if all goes as hoped I will get a hammer because this will be the only time for a long time I will be able to afford one, a press costs much less and will be easier to do at some point in the future. I also figure that I can do damascus with the hammer but can't forge blades with the press. That being said it is hard to ignore when someone like Ed says if he could only have one it would be the press. One idea I heard that made some sense is to get a smaller hammer in the 50# range and a press. That would give you the press for larger stock and the hammer for once it is worked down. Ed, I would be curious to hear your opinion of that idea.

Interesting, interesting. I too would like to hear Ed's take on that.

THanks,

Zack

Zack,

As someone that has dealings with mechanical hammers on a regular basis. I've found that most folks with a hammer wish they had press and those with a press also wish they had a power hammer. You've opened the chicken and the egg discussion.

The main thing you can look at is a press for control and a power hammer for quick forging (such as drawing and also forging of blades).

A press is just about universal, meaning you can set it anywhere with no pad, limited space and it won't bother the neighbors. But there are alot of things that you can just do quicker with a hammer.

In a perfect world. You set the weld, and control the pattern of your damacus with a press and draw out the billet and forge the blade under a power hammer. Could you do it with one or the other?? Yes but there are benefits to both.

I'm looking forward to Ed's post as well.

Dave from Diller

Before I get cranking on my opinions, I want to be clear....I'm not saying that a press is "better" then a hammer, nor is a hammer "better" than a press. I leaned towards the press because more and more folks live in residential areas, and a press is going to keep you on speaking terms with your neighbors much more so than a hammer will!<img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Also, most folks don't have the financial capacity to have both....at least not to buy them at the same time.

On the to nuts and bolts...each Bladesmith/Knifemaker has a somewhat different emphasis on the "type" of forging they do...for me, the vast majority of my forging is damascus, with a lot of that being Mosaic. I simply would not be able to produce many of the Mosaic patterns that I do without a press....which is why I would "lean" that direction. IF I worked mainly with straight steels...I would go the other way...towards a Power/Air hammer.

My "holy grail" for shop equipment would be to have TWO presses (one around 25-30 tons, and another with huge dies and about 60-80 tons), a 100lb or larger Air Hammer, and a Rolling Mill. With that combination, I would be able to do just about anything I could ever desire as far as forging goes. As it is, I have the Say-Mak 110lb Air Hammer, and a 25-35 ton press. The reason I mentioned the 60-80 ton press, would be for making "loaves" of Mosaic.....it's just more efficient.

One idea I heard that made some sense is to get a smaller hammer in the 50# range and a press. That would give you the press for larger stock and the hammer for once it is worked down. Ed, I would be curious to hear your opinion of that idea.

I agree with the above idea. I wouldn't be afraid of going to even a 25# in conjunction with a press.

A press is just about universal, meaning you can set it anywhere with no pad, limited space and it won't bother the neighbors. But there are alot of things that you can just do quicker with a hammer.

In a perfect world. You set the weld, and control the pattern of your damacus with a press and draw out the billet and forge the blade under a power hammer. Could you do it with one or the other?? Yes but there are benefits to both.

I can't put it any better than that!

Something else that came to mind is.....

We all have to operate within our financial means...and often that means "making due" with what we can afford, when we can afford it. I say this, because one of the biggest mistakes I have seen people make, especially those who are not well versed in how the custom knife market works, is folks taking out a loan in order to acquire a press or hammer, and anticipating making the payments by selling the knives they produce with the equipment purchased...BAD IDEA! Trust me, it's far better to make knives, save your money, and purchase the equipment outright. When I purchased my first press, I robbed out of the family savings account with the idea of "repaying" the money....it worried me to death! Thankfully, I was truly blessed to produce/sell enough damascus within the first two months, to put that money back. When you have to depend on selling knives to pay a bill/the bills, it takes on a different aura, and all too often, ceases to be "fun". After that, I saved for over 3 years to purchase the Air Hammer.

Making and selling custom knives is a craft where each makers income is based on everybody else's disposable income. If folks do not have disposable income, or perceive that they do not have disposable income, we simply don't sell knives....and in turn, it's a very difficult to "count" on a set amount of money coming in each month.

Very well stated Ed. I have an old model 25# little giant and am saving for a press as we speak.

Brion

I'm not trying to Hi-Jack Zack's thread...but

How much stroke does a press really NEED?

I'm going to build a 25-30 ton press , and I have a friend that will build me a cylinder for a small $ amount.

Thanks

Dwane

( sorry Zack <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> )

Dwane,

That's gong to depend on YOU, and WHAT you want to do with the press. Mine has 8" max between the dies....and it limits me in a lot of things....namely if I ever want to use any type of tooling, such as a hot-cut to split a billet of "feather" pattern damascus.....because of the short throw on my press, I can only cut about 4" of material at the most.

When you build your press, don't think in the "now"......try to think ahead, and to things you MIGHT want to use the press for....chances are if you can think of uses, then you likely will. Obviously, I didn't do that, and now have my imagination/ideas limited by my equipment.

Dwane, hijack away. I think I've gotten all I need out of this thread. More than I expected, in fact. Thanks for all the great feedback everybody. Enjoy the weekend. zack