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Gas Forge Fuel Questions - Natural Gas

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Posts: 62
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Topic starter
 

I have look around and i can't seem to really find any info on using Natural Gas instead of Propane. I currently use a diamond back ironworks 2 burner forge, and i called the guy who made it and he said it could run natural gas, but where the propane comes out i would have to make the holes a little larger.

Now my main question is: Is there a negative outcome of using it? Does it eat carbon out of a blade? not get hot enough? adds impurities?

The main reason i would like to be able build a new forge and run it off natural gas is where i am set up at isn't close to refill stations for propane, so i can hook it directly up to the house, and from what i have seen it is less expensive than propane.

So never having to switch out bottles or refill the gas seems great.

Also, just occurred to me typing this. If i can use natural gas, do i run the risk of freezing whatever pipes it flows through? When using the propane tanks they frost up.

Once again guys, Thanks!

 
Posted : 20/11/2012 9:19 pm
Kevin R. Cashen
Posts: 735
Member
 

Zach, the only negative in your list that may apply is the heat factor but that is not to say that natural gas cannot get hot enough, I know of more than a couple smiths that made the switch to natural gas and have not complained about lack of heat. Natural gas, as it comes to your home, is exactly that- a gas, whereas the “L” in LP (another name for propane) stands for liquid. It is the rapid exchange from liquid to gas within the tank that causes the frosting effect with propane, to cause frosting with natural gas you would have to be moving it in a very inefficient way. Heck for that matter, if ones LP tank is frosting they are also not matching supply with demand properly and are using it quite inefficiently, if the tank is frosting a larger volume tank is required for what is being done. Your incoming lines may need to be changed, not because of the frost issues but, because natural gas works off volume while propane works off form pressure. Propane being heavier than air tends to hug the ground and pool up while natural gas rise and dissipates.

What you need to be very careful of is in making those “holes a little larger”. If you can get a trained heating and cooling professional experienced with these gasses to assist you in the exact orifice size it would be best. In any case be very careful with gas apparatus, as a firefighter I have seen what both of these fuels can do when things go wrong, and I am continually amazed that more bladesmiths have not been injured with all of the downright scary improvisations I have seen with gas fired equipment.

"One test is worth 1000 'expert' opinions" Riehle Testing Machines Co.

 
Posted : 21/11/2012 8:54 am
Posts: 62
Member
Topic starter
 

thanks so much kevin. i surely don't wanna blow myself up. i think i will just stick with propane.

 
Posted : 22/11/2012 7:34 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 751
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

so i can hook it directly up to the house

Something you might not be aware of is the pressure that residential natural gas is delivered at....generally it is less then 1/2 psi. It may differ state to state, but here in Montana, it's law that natural gas cannot be delivered to a residence at more than 1/2 psi. The only exception they make is that you must be zoned within an "industrial" area....where special piping is run for higher pressure supplies. Here, that opens a whole can of worms for the average "small shop" person.

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 23/11/2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 15
Eminent Member Master Bladesmith (5yr)
 

I've been using nat. gas in my shop for 20 years now. The choice was necessary because my shop was located in downtown Seattle where propane tanks are prohibited. I had to do a bit of research around the topic at the time to see if it would work. Luckily there is a strong faction of glass blowers is Seattle and most were using Nat. gas. The set up requires that you use a blower as the gas is not under enough pressure to create the venturi effect to entrain air. The pressure at my shop is just as Ed said it's @ 8oz delivered in a 3/4 pipe, so the pressure is low but no end to the volume. The "system" includes a blower, commercial mixer, zero govener, several gate valves and a stiktite burner tip, total cost around $700. Initial investment is a bit steep although I have not had to drag tanks to be filled in 20 years. The theoretical temp the nat gas can achieve is very close to that of propane so hitting welding temperature is not a problem. The blower/ mixer provide the ventui effect on the supply line and therefore "pull" or suck fuel out of the supply line. I have been using the same set up for 20 years and have not replaces a single part or burner tip in the system so it is a very practical set up.

 
Posted : 14/01/2013 10:09 am
Posts: 62
Member
Topic starter
 

|quoted:

I've been using nat. gas in my shop for 20 years now. The choice was necessary because my shop was located in downtown Seattle where propane tanks are prohibited. I had to do a bit of research around the topic at the time to see if it would work. Luckily there is a strong faction of glass blowers is Seattle and most were using Nat. gas. The set up requires that you use a blower as the gas is not under enough pressure to create the venturi effect to entrain air. The pressure at my shop is just as Ed said it's @ 8oz delivered in a 3/4 pipe, so the pressure is low but no end to the volume. The "system" includes a blower, commercial mixer, zero govener, several gate valves and a stiktite burner tip, total cost around $700. Initial investment is a bit steep although I have not had to drag tanks to be filled in 20 years. The theoretical temp the nat gas can achieve is very close to that of propane so hitting welding temperature is not a problem. The blower/ mixer provide the ventui effect on the supply line and therefore "pull" or suck fuel out of the supply line. I have been using the same set up for 20 years and have not replaces a single part or burner tip in the system so it is a very practical set up.

Thank you so much Bob.

 
Posted : 14/01/2013 8:31 pm
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