Ryan

I am running my press right at 20 tons. As far as what I can do with it -- I can do anything I want to and have never had the need for more. In fact I rarely take it to full capacity as I have found that using brute force does not necessarily give me the results that I want. The only consideration I have for billet size is if it will fit in the forge and if it will fit in the forge, the press will eat it up.

When building a press, the question is What do you wnat to do with it? I can easily weld and work a billet stacked up of 1 1/2" X 6" layers of steel and the stack has to be just short of 4" to get in the forge door. Some people make big "Loaves" of Damascus and that would require a larger press.

Another key thing to remember is PSI. That is Pounds per Square Inch. This applies for both the cylinder and for your billet. For the cylinder, 2000 psi will give you just shy of 20 ton on a 5" cylinder and 3000 psi will give you just shy of 30 tons. The same goes for working the billet. The more square inches of the billet are under the dies, the more pounds of force are needed to move the steel the same amount. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the size of the bite that was being taken.

Now, a few things about safety. Even though we are working with low pressure, there are sitll some safety considerations to think about. I have not read Dr Batson's book so if I am repeating what is in the book, I am sorry, but it is for good reason. Be sure all components are designed for the max pressure you intend to use. Make sure you have a relief vlave in your system. This is your primary safety device to keep bad things from happening. Relief valves are often integral to the directional control valve. Don't go cheap on the hoses. The typical hydraulic hose is 100R2, but depending on your hose size and pressure, you may want to consider 100R12. Remember, the pressure capability of a hose goes down as the hose size goes up (remember that PSI thing -- more square inches in a larger hose.)

Sorry to go on and on, but I have worked many years as a hydraulic / diesel mechanic for mining equipment and have seen some scary things happen. With the pressures and flows that we typically use on our presses, you are not going to have an issue where if a hose breaks, it is going to cut off an arm, but at these pressures, you could break hoses, valves and pumps pretty easily.

Brian

Ryan,

I have one of Al (Uncle Al) Lawrence's 24 ton presses and I don't feel like I am handicapped by it. I have drawn out some very large billets with it. With the correct dies and proper use it will easily get the job done.

Large masses of steel are not too difficult to move with a press. Thick, hot billets move pretty easily. Thin stock is where it can be difficult to move the material. The press dies quickly suck the heat out of a thin piece of material and so makes it harder to move. When preparing to forge thin stock in the press, I always make sure the dies have been heated to minimize them pulling heat from the steel being forged.

I see this mostly when using pattern dies to press damascus. I forge blades out as thin as possible before pressing the patterns. It takes a combination of repeated pressing and indexing the blade over the dies in small bites to get the job done. More tonnage might press the patterns deeper, but it may also risk damage to the material. I figure that the lower tonnage press helps to keep me from ruining my damascus, by not having the power to crush cold steel.

I too have uncle al's press, I have to say it will easily handle billets larger than will fit in my forge. Also having seen video of the imagination xpress (which I believe runs at 14 tons) I don't know if the 40-50 ton presses are necassary. The biggest advatage I can see to moving to a 6" cylinder is an added margin of safety. To generate a given amount of power it requires less pressure in the system.

I know many people have built presses with good success but personally when I looked into the cost of parts and the cost of my labor it didn't make sense to me. For right around $3,000 you can have one delivered. One that already has been developed and refined, with all the little problems that arise in one of these builds having long ago been worked out. Unlike a Kinyon type hammer wich can cost in the $10,000 range for a manufactured hammer, a press can be purchased for not a whole lot more than you can build one for. Unless you have a well equipped shop and fabrication experience I would strongly recommend looking into purchasing one, and with the extra time forge some damascus.

IN tune with everyone else, it's more than just tonnage.

It's how the press frame is built so that ALL of the energy is directed into the work piece.

If there's a lot of deflection or movement, then that's wasted energy.

The dies are just as important.

You can move small amounts of steel or large.

If you want to move large portions of steel, you will nee a more efficient machine.

This one does everything I can think of ever needing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMh9DbjG9o

[media] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMh9DbjG9o [/media]

Thanks for all of the great info! This is exactly what I was looking for. It is good to know that the 24 ton press can and does handle everything you need it to.

Brian, I couldn't agree more about safety being paramount. I too have seen some scary things happen, and I want to continue doing this for a long long time.

Karl, that is an impressive forge press. (no pun intended) Being able to move it out of the way when not in use is a great addition. very nice! I would love to see a video of it in use sometime!

Thanks again, I really appreciate the time you all have taken to help me better understand the capacity of the 24 ton press.

Hello Ryan;

If you go to Karl's post above and click on the external link, Karl has serval videos forging a blade using his trip hammer and his press. The videos are well done. Thanks Karl!

Russell

Yup, that was a total failure on my part. Thanks.