I bought my anvil new in order to have good edges. At Haywood I used an anvil with good square edges. Am I missing something? I don't believe I have gotten nicks from my anvil so far.

Hi Evan,

It is not an uncommon practice to slightly round off a short section of the nigh and/or off side of the anvil. It' usually done so there's an area where metal can be formed in loose bends or offsets, rather than tight angular ones. The first time I did that to an anvil I over did it. It takes very little to ease the edge back a bit. For me though this isn't done for the procedure you're talking about, as I generally prefer a crisp square edge to set or pinch the blade shoulder or plunge with.

When I get nicks doing an offset (which is what setting the plunge or shoulders on a blade is) it's because my piece jumps and I strike again before getting it set back on the anvil edge in the same place. This results in a kind of a "stutter" of little shoulders skipping around rather than one shoulder all in one place.

It can also happen during general shaping and drawing out procedures if the steel isn't held flush across the anvil. That is, if the hand or tong end of the steel is lower (even slightly) than the anvil table. Hitting the steel when held in such a manner can cause nicks because the portion of steel held over the anvil is higher thus the anvil edge cuts into the steel. It will also introduce slight bends in the bar or rod and more time has to be spent straightening it all back out.

I'm not sure if any of this applies to your situation though. Let us know what you figure out.

Aloha, Phil

|quoted:

I bought my anvil new in order to have good edges. At Haywood I used an anvil with good square edges. Am I missing something? I don't believe I have gotten nicks from my anvil so far.

I think I might be mixed up possibly about rounding the edges. I used an anvil at Haywood last month and they had the edges grounded on them. I'm not sure if they were rounded or just cut at an angle, but I just remember someone mentioning rounding off the corners. I am using the pein of the hammer to pinch my edge down. When I did it at haywood I had no problems, and then when I've done it at home lines and nicks are put into the plunge and choil area. It might just be that I have changed equipment or something is off that I am doing. I am just trying to get an idea of what people do to the edges. Thank you for your response, it is probably just something I am doing.

|quoted:

Hi Evan,

It is not an uncommon practice to slightly round off a short section of the nigh and/or off side of the anvil. It' usually done so there's an area where metal can be formed in loose bends or offsets, rather than tight angular ones. The first time I did that to an anvil I over did it. It takes very little to ease the edge back a bit. For me though this isn't done for the procedure you're talking about, as I generally prefer a crisp square edge to set or pinch the blade shoulder or plunge with.

When I get nicks doing an offset (which is what setting the plunge or shoulders on a blade is) it's because my piece jumps and I strike again before getting it set back on the anvil edge in the same place. This results in a kind of a "stutter" of little shoulders skipping around rather than one shoulder all in one place.

It can also happen during general shaping and drawing out procedures if the steel isn't held flush across the anvil. That is, if the hand or tong end of the steel is lower (even slightly) than the anvil table. Hitting the steel when held in such a manner can cause nicks because the portion of steel held over the anvil is higher thus the anvil edge cuts into the steel. It will also introduce slight bends in the bar or rod and more time has to be spent straightening it all back out.

I'm not sure if any of this applies to your situation though. Let us know what you figure out.

Aloha, Phil

Thank you for this bit of information Phil, I believe this does apply to my situation! I think that my anvil stand is too high here, and sometimes I may be holding the steel slightly lower than expected. I think I may have overdone the edges on my anvil, and now I'm kinda dissapointed that I made a bad judgement call on my part. Hopefully I can make do with what I have done.

Evan

Evan,

I got a carbide file guide from Mastersmith Bruce Bump and use it to clean up both my plunge lines and for filing my guard seat on hidden tang knives. Works great. Google him and call and talk to him. He's a great source of information and very helpful. He's on the west coast so there is a 3 hour time difference form me in Florida.

George

|quoted:

Thank you for this bit of information Phil, I believe this does apply to my situation! I think that my anvil stand is too high here, and sometimes I may be holding the steel slightly lower than expected. I think I may have overdone the edges on my anvil, and now I'm kinda dissapointed that I made a bad judgement call on my part. Hopefully I can make do with what I have done.

How much of a radius would you say you ground? (How far into the table and how far down the side?) Did you do it the full length of the table? On both edges?

I have a nice 200 lb anvil that I bought new and naturally the edges are sharp and crisp as would be expected. I like for there to be a section of one or both edges to be slightly rounded for just the reason you mentioned. It is common for blacksmiths to round some parts or all of their anvil's edges, thus you see a lot of used anvils with rounded edges. I cant bring myself to do that on a new anvil, but did use a flapper disc to ease over a section making it less likely to get those incisions in the work piece, in this case, the blade.

All this said, where I work, we use a 200 year old colonial pattern anvil with mushroomed edges, crowned top, and dings over 75% of the surface. All from past decades of use and abuse. We use it because it is correct for the time period we represent. You would be surprised to know that some very fine, precise, and well finished work can come off such an anvil. You do get familiar with the anvil but also you get to know your process and can sniff out the places on the anvil that allow you to get the shapes you are after. That comes with experience and hammer slills. Believe it or not, blades are relatively easy to forge in comparison to other blacksmith projects. As mentioned in another thread, a blacksmithing class will help a bladesmith.

Could someone post an example of the rounded edge or process of rounding it? How much of the edge should I round? I see the benefit of this, just do not want to ruin my anvil by doing it wrong.

I have two anvils. One is a very old Mouse Hole, 97# with really rounded edges. I'll use it when doing tapers and scrolls over the edge. It has a slight sway in the middle of the face, but I have learned to work around it when trying to keep things flat. My other anvil is a Southern Cresent 150#. The edges were sharp, so I took a 60 grit flap wheel on my 4.5" grinders and put a slight radius on the edges starting at the step/cutting table tapering off to a sharp edge at the heel. I also took my hand belt sander to the horn of the Southern Cresent and rounded it slightly. I didn't like the bull nose it had, so I just smoothed it over a bit. I just worked on the anvils from time to time with the flap wheel and sander until they suited the way I work. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. Just do a little at a time until it suits you. Remember, you can take it off, but putting it back is a real problem. Sharp edges can nick a hammer face easily, or vice versa!

Anvil stories, both we're given to me. A buddy of mine bought the Mouse Hole at a garage sale for $35.00! It was painted gray and he stuck it in his garden. He loaned it to me. I ground the paint off, and he almost fell over when I told him what he really had. The rebound on it is better than anything else I have ever worked on. A neighbor found out I was looking for a bigger anvil, and "gave me" my Southern Cresent. It had three layers of paint that took two wire wheels to get it all off.

Robert,

Thank you for the info. I am going to think about getting another anvil and rounding the edges some to see how it works. I got my eye on an old hay buden that the owner said was about 125#.

Thank you all for the interesting and informative responses. I have rounded off a section a little too much for my taste, and am glad that I have left some of the edge untouched. The real problem was that I was holding the bar slightly lower than I should have been.

Phil- I rounded off the edge a quarter of an inch or so, I over did this in my opinion.

Lin- That is some really neat information there, and it is really great that you work at the job you do and keep up tradition!

George- I have a carbide file guide and it is one of the best tools I have bought thus far!

I know this is an old thread but I recently came across this while restoring my first anvils face after Jason knight built the surface back up.....

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/making/anvil_radius.php