The basic question: How do I cut a log perfectly square on both ends with a Chainsaw? (Or other method). I may have some logs that are oak that may fit, but if I don't it appears that using 4x4s glued and clamped together will still require something larger than a table saw/circle saw to cut evenly.
I recently was just dumb lucky enough to get a (new to me) larger Anvil. The anvil is a Trenton, 416lbs and from researching the serial number it appears to have been made between 1916-1918. From what I was told it was sold by a local Farrier who had passed away, and his son believes he purchased it from the Anaconda Mining Company. The anvil is in great shape, but there is a problem I did not anticipate: Anvil stand. The base of the anvil is a 1/4 " too large in width, and about exact to the edge on the length of my current anvil stand. I made my old stand out of cutting two Oak Timber beam from the family ranch into 4 (almost even) pieces and welded angle iron and bars around it after I strapped it together. I really didn't know what I was doing, but it seemed to work ok. Now that I have a much heavier anvil it could be dangerous for my kids that can wander into my shop at times.
Whenever I ask questions I try and do my research on the forum search icon before I ask. It seems the best comments have come from Kevin Cashen and Steve Culver. They discuss why solid hardwood is best, and other things not as much. Dissenting opinions have been mainly about the inability to get oak, but I have some logs that I have to dig through that I have been told are Oak and the rounds weigh at least twice the weight of the other pine logs I have in my storage shed. When I cut my timbers they just weren't perfectly even, and I spent a few hours trying to belt sand them flat. From hearing Mr. Cashen's words it sounds like I have lost a lot of energy with them being uneven.
Kevin Cashen:
It all comes down to basic physics, and it is all about how much mass you have in an immovable base. Be it power hammer sow blocks or anvils I have seen so much kinetic energy wasted and absorbed by a poorly planned system. For anvils it comes down to portability vs. a solid base. A steel framework stand is ideal for something that you wish to move from different positions around the shop or other locations, but you totally sacrifice efficiency of blows for this convenience. When I teach at schools that have the steel anvil stands I love the portability of a steel frame stand, but I know all along that I am sacrificing efficiency of hammer blows for it.
It is simple physics, the more solid mass you have under that blow, the more energy you can put into the work piece rather than vibration and rebound of the foundation system. Steel angle iron, and such, is the least efficient, solid foundations are better and embedded solid foundations are the best.
For this reason, all my anvils in my home shop are mounted on solid 20-24†oak log sections. This is still a compromise for the ability to move them if needed. Ideally, for maximum efficiency, I would have then embedded at least 2 feet into a solid earth base. If you ever forge on such a setup you will understand why within a couple of hammer blows.
I have also worked on plenty of stacked 2X4 or 4x4 bases and still felt the difference. I have watched the sow block of power hammers bounce on a 4x4 base, and hit with about half of their potential force because of it. I followed the original 1924 instructions for the foundation of my Bradley hammer and poured a 4’X4’x6’ foundation and have enjoyed the power it gives that hammer.
So, as with everything, it is a compromise. In this case it is the trade-off of convenience to move that anvil to the efficiency of blows. I would recommend the greatest grounded mass for the level of dedicated position that you can afford.
What I did was find a local saw mill that had log ends, or friends with oak trees they wanted gone, and got my anvil stands from them.
"One test is worth 1000 'expert' opinions" Riehle Testing Machines Co.
Tom,
I have seen, and used, anvils placed on just about everything imaginable. An anvil stand serves two purposes. It places the anvil at the proper height for the smith to work and also provides a solid base for the anvil. A solid base is important so that the force of the smith's hammer blows are not lost. Also, a good, properly heat treated anvil will rebound the smith's hammer after each forging strike. This effectively reduces the amount of physical labor the smith has to use in forging because the smith doesn't have to lift the entire weight of the hammer for each blow. A solid anvil base will aid the anvil in rebounding the smith's hammer. I have never seen an anvil base that was so poor that it totally mitigated a good anvil's ability to rebound a hammer to some extent. Conversely, I have never seen a base good enough to significantly improve the rebound abilities of a "dead" anvil.
Over the many centuries of blacksmithing, there have been millions of anvils placed on stumps, or sections of a tree truck. This provides a decent base for an anvil because the anvil is resting on end grain wood. End grain is less compressible than side grain wood. I have both of my anvils on bases similar to the one in Brion's photo. Although this is what I am using, I do not consider this to be an idea style of base because the anvil is resting on side grain wood. Also, the many stacked layers almost certainly have some space between the materials, making this type of base less solid. If you choose to use this method of construction, I would recommend using a construction adhesive, or epoxy between the layers of wood.
The type of base shown in Dan Cassidy's photo is to me the ideal style of wood base. The anvil is supported by end grain wood and the construction method allows the materials to be joined tightly. I would also consider using a construction adhesive between the materials to maximize the rigidness of the assembly.
Carrying on the theme of the ultimate anvil stand, <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> there are a couple more connections to consider; the connection between the anvil and the base and also between the base and the floor. If your anvil base rocks on the floor, you do not have a solid connection to the floor and are losing some of the effectiveness of the base.
Most anvil bottoms are left as cast and are not perfectly flat. It is possible to take your anvil to a machine shop and have them mount the anvil upside down on a milling machine and fly cut the bottom flat. One cool idea that I have seen is to use Acraglas to bed the anvil to the base. Clay was used to create a dam around the area where the anvil's feet would set. Acraglas was poured into this dammed up area. The anvil's bottom was coated with a release agent and then placed into the Acraglas.
It also helps to have the anvil solidly mounted to the base by means of steel straps, or other rigid connections that can be tightened down on the anvil's feet. One of the slickest methods that I have seen is using two chains. One end of each chain was connected to the side of the anvil base by an eye bolt. The other ends of the chains were connected to turn-buckles on the opposite side of the anvil base. Each chain was pulled across the feet of the anvil at the opposite end of the anvil base from the eye bolts. The chains formed an "X" on each side of the anvil base. (Wish I had a picture) The turn-buckles were tightened, tensioning the chains against each other and pulling down on the feet of the anvil.
Now that I have provided you with more information than you were expecting, I'll step back and say that my anvil bases are not at all as elaborate as I have described here; and I get along just fine with my forging. But, I hope this information helps you with your anvil base design.
Respectfully
Michael
Here is a photo if it loads:
Respectfully
Michael
You could just bend over a bit and leave it on the floor...
Here is how I did mine. I got some shims and a carpenters square. put the square on the ground and shim the bottom until its "vertical(ish)". I then got 4 - 2x4s that were 1' longer than the width of my stump.
Mark the middle of the 2x4. and with one screw put one 4" near the top of the stump.
now using a level add 2 or 3 more screws so that it is secure. One side is done.
lay the carpenters square on the 2x4 in a flat orientation. You are going to add another 2x4.
screw the end of the 2nd 2x4 into the first where the square makes a 90.
Now using the level again, screw it to the stump.
Repeat this process for the 3rd side.
Cut a 2x4 to fit for the last side.
Go around making sure all 4 sides are level. This will probably take a bit of adjustment.
Now get your chainsaw. There should be hole near the tip and base of the bar.
At the tip, bolt a spacer so that that it is just a bit thicker than the chain. this spacer is going to ride on the 2x4s.
depending on your bar, you may need to add a longer tail spacer so that it rides on the back 2x4.
Effectively what you have now created is a portable chainsaw sawmill
Cut the top off the stump by riding the spacers on top of the 2x4s.
Take off the 2x4s and you should have an even square end to now work from.
Flip the stump over and repeat the process.
(this would be MUCH easier if I had a video, but alas, I did mine before I started videoing things)
Bob Bryenton
Solar Storm Group Ltd.
Phone: (780) 953-0016
Email: [email protected]
https://www.solarstorm.ca
“The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible" -- Arthur C. Clarke
Phew! I had to read that a couple times.
Is it this method?
- (Jon Peters) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwiZYjBsg1w
- (Essential Craftsman) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoToTcmVNqQ
Cause I tried it, and for the life of me I couldn't get the bar spacer to stay on my chainsaw bar!!! Watch the piece fly off in my video. Maybe you can explain to me the right way to get that piece to stay on.
My video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=614IBumVS-E&t=15s
I purchased a router, maybe I should try this:
https://youtu.be/cjPFUbqBlW4?si=4sRmC5ADA7TFqbue
Respectfully
Michael
left this comment on your video: "dont use the spacer for the full length of the bar. Just a small piece on the tip to ride on the front 2x4 and then a piece to ride on the back piece of 2x4. The part of the bar that cuts should not have a spacer. it will just get hung up and come off, just like yours did."
Bob Bryenton
Solar Storm Group Ltd.
Phone: (780) 953-0016
Email: [email protected]
https://www.solarstorm.ca
“The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible" -- Arthur C. Clarke
I have made two anvil stands and this is the one I use currently to hold the anvil. It used to hold a 200# Peter Wright (shown in photo) and now holds a 150# Fisher. It is a box made from 2x10 that tapers from to top to a wider base and the box is filled with sand. Can I move it around the shop? Yes, but not with the anvil on it. It weighs more than either anvil. A flat board is then cut, fit into the top, and leveled for the anvil to lay on.
All four side have tong and hammer racks for the tools we use the most.
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”
Thank you! I know your main anvil is just a huge piece of steel, but I am trying to figure out how to get it done myself. This is what I have done so far (Picture below). I plan to pull the anvil back down, and attach some 2x8s and 2x10s to the exterior if I can find and buy them in order to support and even up the sides before I bolt everything down. In addition I am considering filling all the gaps in the wood with a wood glue or some kind of glue I can afford. I was thinking of wrapping visqueen around the stand once I get it bolted and filling it with glue and then re-welding up my support brackets. Then I was going to router out a basin for the anvil base to sit in. Then fill that with silicon caulking and then bolt brackets on top of base feet with connections to the side brackets.
Respectfully
Michael
Our primary anvil is a 150# Fisher. I do have a "huge piece of steel" that I use for some special operations in knife making.
This is a 200# bar of chrome-moly. The 3x9 face is easily polished for flattening and planishing. The sharp edges are also useful for setting plunges and the like. It's too soft to do any serious forging on though. I have to periodically polish the face to remove the divots.
Looking at the pic of your anvil stand; it looks like the base of the anvil is almost exactly the same as the anvil base. Perhaps you could add a shim plate, a piece of wood or plywood between the wood blocks to match the anvil base or get a touch bigger. Then you could laminate those 2x12's on the outside and have them extend past the top of the wood blocks by an inch or so. This would create the rim around the anvil base to keep it from walking off the anvil stand. Silicone that anvil into the rim and attach your tool racks to the 2x12's.
Gluing, clamping, and toe-screwing the big blocks together is a good idea. You can also screw the plywood shim plate to one set of blocks and glue the other set to the shim plate. Titebond II is amazingly strong, and it doesn't expand like some other glues.
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”
That is pretty much exactly my plan. I do like the "laminate idea of placing the boards perpendicular to the support boards to add structural strength. Any advice for glue I should use in getting the boards placed together?
Respectfully
Michael
Titebond 2
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”