That's very pretty! I wasn't familiar with Nelsonite until now, but seeing the kind of results you're getting with it I'm definitely going to be looking into it.

Thanks for sharing!

I've now been doing take downs for 22 years. When I started showing them around on Blade Forums about 2002-03 nobody even knew what it was. The process was used by a few for construction assistance, but the only other people who did it as a final assembly I knew of were Bailey Bradshaw, Jim Siska and Jerry Rados. It was Jerry who taught me and Jim.

It's the only way I know of to build a hidden tang knife.

Both my JS and MS performance knives were also take-downs so don't let the strength of the assembly concern you. I'm getting very close to making 1000 of these and have had not one! fail or be returned.

Done right, as far as I'm concerned, it's the only way to go.

Well done sir.

This build, along with Karl's and other's, is a great example of fit and finish.

Side comment: Work like this is clear, visible evidence that a hidden tang is equally strong as a full tang knife. That tired old debate is argued by the unskilled, uneducated, or unintelligent. It's been proven time and again by those who trouble themselves to build to a high standard of engineered fit. A knife like this doesn't rely on being "stuck" together. It's engineered to a tight tolerance, it's well fit joint's under just enough tension and whose parts combined with no slack along the line, assures that there is no movement and operates as intended, as one entire unit. Movement between knife parts is the death knell of a knife's handle.

As far as strength. With a few rare exceptions every knightly sword I have ever made is a take down. I have been doing them that way for close to 15 years and I have never had one come back with handle failing.

That is a sweet knife Kevin.

MP

Tim Zowada had been doing take-downs forever and he put the fire under me to do one back around 1996. I have done them occasionally ever since but never really made it my thing, in fact many of my pieces that were precision takedowns only the owners knew. These are just a couple that most folks didn’t know were take-downs:

The ivory handled piece was done around 1998, and had a decorative disk, tied to the scabbard, which had a central quatrefoil piercing which would fit to the pommel button and unlock the assembly.

I can sense the passion in both Karl’s and Lin’s posts regarding this ridiculous old myth about the strength of hidden tangs, for I share the same feelings. This idea needs to go away already. Full tangs are fine, and a very valid method of construction, but the argument that they should be done for strength falls very flat in reality. Down through history blades that were designed for much heavier use, abuse and impact, where primarily hidden tang, not full tang, and nothing in all my years of bladesmithing experience has shown me where a properly made hidden tang can go wrong in the strength department.

At the Scagel Hammer-in, around 2004, I competed in a cutting competition with a damascus take-down. After a couple of hours of heavy chopping and whacking, including the timed 2X4 event, I took a lot of pleasure in then disassembling the knife in front of some spectators to prove the point of the strength of this construction.

Those sure are beautiful blades Kevin.

Awesome work! I have never heard of a takedown until I came here. Given there is no epoxy in the handle to seal things, would one have to worry about corrosion to the inners if exposed to the elements, such as in a hunter? And how do the blind pins attach inside the handle?

Matt, The take down feature allows for maintenance to prevent rust from taking over. A light application of butcher's wax or specialized wax in/around the joints will seal it. Heather and Kevin Harvey makes a nice paste wax that comes in an attractive tin that I often use.

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Awesome work! I have never heard of a takedown until I came here. Given there is no epoxy in the handle to seal things, would one have to worry about corrosion to the inners if exposed to the elements, such as in a hunter? And how do the blind pins attach inside the handle?

There is epoxy in the handle, it just isn't stuck to the tang. Once the blind pins are in place, I set them permanently in the handle material with glue, the tang is coated with a very thin layer of release agent (grease) and the whole thing is assembled with Accraglass gun bedding compound. The next day, a light rap on the guard releases it all but the tang has an absolute bedded fit to the interior of the handle with zero wiggle or slop. I believe this is key to making the assembly as strong as it is. Due to the bedding effect you can almost put the knife into use with that fit alone, but the compression from the tang threads as well as the pins makes it as strong as any fully glued up handle.

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There is epoxy in the handle, it just isn't stuck to the tang. Once the blind pins are in place, I set them permanently in the handle material with glue, the tang is coated with a very thin layer of release agent (grease) and the whole thing is assembled with Accraglass gun bedding compound. The next day, a light rap on the guard releases it all but the tang has an absolute bedded fit to the interior of the handle with zero wiggle or slop. I believe this is key to making the assembly as strong as it is. Due to the bedding effect you can almost put the knife into use with that fit alone, but the compression from the tang threads as well as the pins makes it as strong as any fully glued up handle.

Very interesting, thanks for explaining. I am sure that when properly made, that this construction could be just as strong as even a full tang knife. However, I am sure many buyers still prefer the full tangs for more hard use knives.

The biggest advantage I have found in the full tang knife is in cost of production, and many people never consider this aspect, but it probably has the most to do with the prevalence of the full tang after a certain point in history. In earlier periods steel was at such a premium that the hidden tang made sense economically, but once steel was readily available, by far, the quicker way to make a knife is to flatten out that tang and rivet some slabs to either side of it. Hidden tangs require a more involved fit of hilt components and time equals money. This realization hit me years ago when I challenged myself to make a knife that I could offer to local hunters for $100. As I sat down to design such I knife I quickly realized that the only way to make it work, at that time without losing money, was to eliminate the time spent on guard and handle fitment, so a simple full tang with two slabs of wood was the way to go. This is even more apparent when one looks at the horrible guard fit on low end production hidden tangs, you can't make money if you are going to give the time required to those details at that price point. It is this factor, more than any strength considerations that is responsible for the advent, and domination, of the full tang post industrial revolution.

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Once the blind pins are in place, I set them permanently in the handle material with glue

I always leave mine free floating to avoid any accident of bending the pins. A bent pin would prevent the owner from assembling the knife. I always send a couple extra for replacements.

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I always leave mine free floating to avoid any accident of bending the pins. A bent pin would prevent the owner from assembling the knife. I always send a couple extra for replacements.

I don't extend them out enough to bend. All they have to do is align the parts, and only on the butt cap after the bedding is done, as the guard to handle is solid on its own, despite the pins. What I did find some time ago is that it worked better for me to always leave the insertion on the metal fittings, because the hole in natural handle materials will eventually wear and get loose, so that attachment is made permanent.

The biggest advantage I have found in the full tang knife is in cost of production, and many people never consider this aspect, but it probably has the most to do with the prevalence of the full tang after a certain point in history. In earlier periods steel was at such a premium that the hidden tang made sense economically, but once steel was readily available, by far, the quicker way to make a knife is to flatten out that tang and rivet some slabs to either side of it. Hidden tangs require a more involved fit of hilt components and time equals money. This realization hit me years ago when I challenged myself to make a knife that I could offer to local hunters for $100. As I sat down to design such I knife I quickly realized that the only way to make it work, at that time without losing money, was to eliminate the time spent on guard and handle fitment, so a simple full tang with two slabs of wood was the way to go. This is even more apparent when one looks at the horrible guard fit on low end production hidden tangs, you can't make money if you are going to give the time required to those details at that price point. It is this factor, more than any strength considerations that is responsible for the advent, and domination, of the full tang post industrial revolution.

Quote above is from Kevin Cashen

I absolutely agree with your estimation on this matter Kevin. When taking a shallow view of the construction, some will erroneously say that full tang is stronger. But when considering the multitudes of examples of remaining(intact) knives and swords, there's no basis for that belief. Economy and price is a driving factor in industry of mass production especially since the late 1800's. As "do it your selfers" decide to give it a shot, they naturally gravitate to the simpler construction and, in turn, justify that choice by saying it is stronger. On the list of qualities that are desirable in a knife, strength is just one and should be kept intentionally on par with the other qualities lest the knife become heavy and unwieldy. I see cases where it's obvious that a maker over emphasizes strength and it actually detracts from the knife's usefulness toward it intended purpose. Sufficiency is a very good guide when designing knives and humans. Humans and knives can become muscle bound.