M.S. Cashen, thank you for the extremely thorough response to my questions! The point about normalizing in still, room-temperature air and not in the kiln is invaluable. The information regarding stamp-related fractures and distinguishing heat treatment-[and prior]-induced fractures from those influenced by microstructures is also a great bit of info that I haven't found elsewhere.

M.S. Tomberlin, thank you for taking the time to read my questions, even if you don't work with O1.

Joshua, I've read a few of M.S. Cashen's posts elsewhere around the web, and sometimes...I have to Google at least a word per sentence. Don't feel bad. haha

BUT, I do seem to learn something new most of the time.

I used to be much better about breaking the $5 words down into 10 cent vernaculars, but found that it took twice as much typing and created some confusion with less accurate words, not to mention the grief I got from more knowledgeable folks. But then I realized that if I wanted to bring our craft up a notch in metallurgical savvy that the only way to learn a language is to speak it. I am hearing in this thread what I like to hear most, that folks are looking things up, even if I may have necessitated it with the words I used, the process of researching even a single word is an invaluable part of the education process, and that is what the ABS is all about. I have encountered some who will say that if I can’t use words they know they will not bother reading what I have to say. Let’s apply that to everything in our craft- imagine going to an ABS school and telling the MS instructor that if he can’t stick to things you already know how to do you are out of there; sort of defeats the whole point. Folks give week or two of their lives to learn things they never knew they could in those classes, I just timed it with a stop watch and it took me 11.6 seconds to look up the definition of austenite in a new window of the browser, and it is phase in steel that can either make or break everything else in the knife.

Once again, I am not getting preachy, I am just letting folks know the method in my madness and the folks here obviously understand and are approaching it the way that engages me and makes me want to keep the conversation going. I enjoy it when people pick on my egg head posts, it is all in fun and I need the laughs as well, and I also know that I actually deserve it. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Now more technobabble:

Joshua, actually I do pretty much the same thing for normalizing. I have found that the temperature of normalizing, so long as it is above recrystallization and full solution, is not as important as how evenly you heat and cool and the rate at which you do it.

The anneal I do rather differently. If I am going to do any machining on O-1 I do a full industrial spheroidization. I use a ramp feature in the kiln that involves heating to 1375F for 1 hour and then cooling no faster than 50F degrees per hour until 800F - 850F. This will produce an anneal that will guarantee the health of you mills, drills and other cutters but will also require some extra soaking when it comes time to harden. If I am just going to grind and do some light straightening I heat it to 1275F for an hour and then just shut the kiln off. This will produce a very fine spheroidal condition that will chatter and wear your mills a little more but will go back into solution for hardening much more readily.

I can’t say much regarding your hardening as we are in two different worlds since I use the salt baths and marquenching methods that O-1 is very responsive to. I would just be certain that you stay as close to Ms (around 400F) or below as possible when you move to the air or the clamping, if it is higher the auto-tempering effects could reduce your overall maximum hardness.

One thing that I add to the tempering process (pretty much the same temps as yours) is that I always do multiple cycles and walk in my HRC readings and between each temper I quench in cold water. This is just a matter of neurotic desires of getting that last fraction of that last 1% if it is possible via converting possible leftover phases and avoid other precipitates, and it is nothing to get hung up about if you are a sane, well-adjusted person.

Chris, you are most welcome. I enjoy these little chats, it somewhat justifies all the years I have spent reading, testing and staring at steel under a microscope. The whole nerd image is probably too well deserved but I like mad scientists even more. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Kevin,

Thank you for the reply, and I'm glad you take the jibing with a smile. Please do not stop being who you are and try to "dumb down" the conversation. My admission of confusion was more of a self-deflating statement than a poke at you. For some strange reason, I just cannot keep the definitions of austenite, martensite, pearlite, and bainite straight in my tiny brain. I just try and make sure the steel in my knife is made out of "dunrite." <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

About annealing: "I use a ramp feature in the kiln that involves heating to 1375F for 1 hour and then cooling no faster than 50F degrees per hour until 800F - 850F." That's like a 6-7 hour process. I know I told Chris to have some patience, but wow. I will try the heat to 1275, soak an hour, and stop method and see If I notice and difference between the two.

About quenching:

My oil quench usually lasts 10-15 seconds (no longer than enough to sing Happy Birthday), before I remove and clamp. The copper jaws are 12 inch long bars, 3/8" x 1 " and the spine goes in between the pressure lines. The bars get pretty warm doing this as they "complete the quench" and keep the blade from warping.

About tempering:

"It is nothing to get hung up about if you are a sane, well-adjusted person." Well, that counts me out.

Now I have to decide whether I need to try this and compare two blades, or if I am too lazy to change the way I do things. This is the problem with talking to multiple guys with an MS stamp. Just when you get one method of doing something down pat, you have another way of doing it to learn. (Sigh)

|quoted:

... This is the problem with talking to multiple guys with an MS stamp. Just when you get one method of doing something down pat, you have another way of doing it to learn. (Sigh)

I hear ya, that is one of the reasons I decided years ago to listen to the steel instead of other makers. I include myself there, I try not to give recipes or tell people to do it just like I do it, but instead give them things the steel will respond to and let the steel tell them what it needs. The skill comes into learning how to hear what the steel is saying. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />