Good topic. I look forward to hearing what each of you do.

One thing that I like to do in order to change things up is to use varied thicknesses of initial layers put together in no particular order. Even though I usually buy the same thicknesses of 1084 & 15N20, I will often double them here & there in the initial stack just to change the pattern some.

Gary

Good question Karl.

I am sometimes asked to incorporate an old historic object into my Damascus to make it special for the new owner perhaps as a gift. I remember cutting an old plow point into sections and stacking this into the mix. As Gary mentioned the thickness played a part in the final look, but the material also etched out a completely dark shade. I could point out to the owner (a family farm owner) just where the plow point material was.

Also I will spend more time with a hand hammer on these pieces with the hopes of imparting the blows, not more evenly exactly, but consistently uneven. That sounds crazy but you might know what I mean. A pattern of unevenness?

|quoted:

Also I will spend more time with a hand hammer on these pieces with the hopes of imparting the blows, not more evenly exactly, but consistently uneven. That sounds crazy but you might know what I mean. A pattern of unevenness?

That doesn't sound crazy at all. I will occasionally hammer the bevels with a cross peen or even a domed face hammer rather than the flat face of a typical hammer just to upset the pattern a little differently.

Gary

I'm enjoying these ideas.

I hope others are willing to share.

Also I will spend more time with a hand hammer on these pieces with the hopes of imparting the blows, not more evenly exactly, but consistently uneven.

EXACTLY!

Over the years I've come to understand that when making any type of damascus, its a great help to think about what goes on inside/throughout the billet when you do something to the outside. In the case of random damascus, the more you grind through layers when cleaning up, rough grind, etc....the more pattern you reveal. Where we generally try to forge things even and smooth most of the time, I strive for just the opposite with random pattern damascus..... the more I can distort the cross section during forging, the better.

When it comes to random, I generally leave a billet/profile overly thick, and will often times run it through the air hammer drawing dies.... in different directions, after I finalize the profile.... its possible to achieve many variations, based on how you run the billet through the dies.

Thanks to everyone - so far - for their contribution.

As an addendum to this topic, I add a picture of my San Mai.

On the last weld through the press, I use some rounded drawing dies to upset the layering. (Up to this point, I have only used flat dies so as to keep the center in the middle.)

I often refer to it as a visual demonstration of what is occurring inside a bar of steel when using drawing dies.

My "random" tends to be somewhat unpredictable.....only partially deliberately.

I switch off between my press, treadle hammer, and hand held, and end up with

what looks a bit like a random/accidental ladder. At 300-400 layers with a deep etch

and hand polishing, it's pretty active. If I were to limit myself to one pattern. this

would be it..!

I also really like a nice random pattern, and will use some of the same techniques described above, but will also occasionally cut some grooves into the surface of the billet to further upset the layers. I will usually cut these grooves with the edge of an abrasive wheel on my angle grinder in a deliberately random formation, varying the spacing, depth, length, and orientation of the grooves, and I find that it really adds a lot of activity and chatoyance to the surface pattern once forging and finishing is complete. For maximum chatoyance, a layer count in the 300-400 range, as Russ stated above, seems to really do the trick. The final effect is a unique, shimmery surface pattern that can nicely complement (or contrast) the grain pattern in a nice piece of wood.

Another cool effect can be a low-layer (say 80-120 layer) random pattern forged out with a lot of heavy blows with a hand hammer. These low layer count random patterns can also create a wood-grain appearance that reminds me more of a softwood, like a gnarled old piece of pine or spruce. Though somewhat similar in construction, the lower layer count creates a much bolder and more dramatic appearance than the finer and more chatoyant high layer patterns described above.

Both styles can be quite beautiful, and when paired with the right handle material they can totally alter the personality of a knife. The former appears more delicate, refined and ethereal while the latter looks rustic, weathered and rough. It's almost like comparing an elegant lady in an evening gown to a grizzled old mountain man in a pair of well-worn dungarees. They are both beautiful in their own unique way.

P.S. - Please excuse my excessive use of the word "chatoyance." I believe I have now exceeded my daily allowance of this word by a factor of 4, and shall refrain from further use of the word until Tuesday of next week at the earliest. Thanks for your understanding.

I once heard someone say that only lazy people made random damascus. Personally I don't see anything lazy about anyone that makes damascus. That being said, I agree that the more a billet is hammered and manipulated the more active the pattern will be.

Dale

I like to split the billet up in to 2-3 pieces and draw each out to a different thickness before restacking. I also will forge down to 1 1/4" round or so twist forge down to 1" round or so and untwist, then draw down and restack. normally when I do this kind of pattern I use it in the edge of a multi bar pattern. I love the random wood grain appearance juxtaposed with a regular imposed pattern.

MP