Not only does it work, but it is also safer in that you don't have molten borax squirting all over you or eating up the forge! That alone makes it worth doing. Probably the drawback is that you can't reflux (or should I say re-kerosene) while hot. I know folks that use borax on the edges after initial weld while still hot.

I'd really like to have the process explained to me as I have had no success in welding using kerosene only. I use borax and boric acid with no problems, but kero doesn't seem to work by itself.

My feeling is that if one needs to use borax etc after the initial weld, what is the benefit of using only kero on the first weld? I guess I could understand it if the subsequent welds were dry welds.

Thanks,

John Emmerling

I just welded up a large billet of a stack of .090 15N20 to make a hunting knife out of 1/4" 15N20.

Absolutely flawless piece of steel.

I will be doing my own experiments in the very near future this summer.

When discussing some of the variables on this with Butch Sheeley, he told me he had done quite a few welds with parts cleaner fluid.

When I asked him what brand he used, he had no idea.

I asked why.

He said because the cleaner he used was out of his cleaner fluid tub that he had been using for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!

So, not only was the fluid old, but it had to be loaded with all types of contaminants from the parts it had cleaned over that time period.<img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//blink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

JD, thanks for the information on your testing of other fluids.

I've heard of guys using WD-40 on their billets. I think the primary reason for using kerosene, is the assurance that it doesn’t have any additives that may inhibit welding. I am reluctant to try diesel fuel, or motor oil, as these have a lot of additives.

I typically make the first weld with kerosene. Then, do a second welding pass with a little 20MT borax to ensure that the edges are welded. This may be totally unnecessary, but I can't help but wonder if the carbon left by the kerosene may burn out at the edges before the weld is set. I only use kerosene for the initial weld of the stack of steel. During restacking of the billet, I MIG weld the layers for a dry weld.

I too have been forge welding this way for some time. It seems that everyone has their own recipie of what works which supports JD statements.

John Here is the process I follow. I tightly clamp the billet in a vise and TIG weld the billet together about every inch or so. My theory for this is that if I can keep the billet as a solid nearly single piece I will not have to worry about the edges. To date, I have never had any problems with the edges doing this. I also plan ahead for a billet so I can allow it to soak in the Kero over night. While I am sure that the capilary action is pretty quick in coating all the surfaces, the longer soak doesn't hurt anything.

Place in forge that is running rich and leave it in there until it is to welding heat then squeeze in hydraulic press. 2 things that I think can cause problems with this method is taking the billet out of the forge to see if it is hot enough and not having the billet held together tight enough that the layers of steel can seperate allowing the edges to super heat.

I also think this method is less forgiving on the initial weld is the billet is not hot enough. I have some borax from Centar forge that says right on the can that it allows welding at lower temperatures. Make sure your gage of how hot the billet is is not set by what you are used to doing but by what you are doing now. As with any new method, there are likely to be problems that are encountered. If the welds wont hold, try letting the billet soak longer or get it hotter and see if the results become more favorable.

My proceedure may be a bit of an overkill, but I have had very successful results and it works well with the timeline in my shop. I would much rather spend this time insuring success than having problems down the road after much time and effort has been invested.

Brian

Brian, I don't even soak the billet at all! I just pour it over the billet, or give it a quick dip in the heat treating oil. Works like a charm every time.

|quoted:

Brian, I don't even soak the billet at all! I just pour it over the billet, or give it a quick dip in the heat treating oil. Works like a charm every time.

That's one thing that is so great about bladesmithing -- just when you think you have something figured out, you realize that there is so much more to learn and more to discover <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.

Thanks for the info. One never quite knows what is going on inside the billet and this sharing of information is why this organization is so great and allows us all to become better smiths.

Brian