Andrew, If I was to do this I would use the 1084 on the outsides of your billet. I presume that these layers are thicker than the 15N20 layers so you would use 9 layers of 1084 and 8 layers of 15N20. Make sure that both sides of each piece of steel in your billet is clean. Specifically take off any bark that is on your 1084 so that the metal is clean and free of rust,crud,bark etc... Clamp all of the pieces together and weld down the side of your billet to hold it tight together while you soak it in your furnace. Get rid of the flux and never use that again to make damascus. You can soak your billet in kerosene before you forge it and that will help give you a solid weld. I have some great pictures of Nick Wheeler making damascus on my website which is exactly what you are trying to do so you can look at it for a reference. My website is not complete but the pictures are there. http://thomasdamascus.com/ go to the tab "what is damascus" and you can see the pictures. Good luck.

Rob Thomas

ABS Apprentice

Andrew,

Forge welding is one of the things that bladesmith's have to dial in when it comes to methods and individual equipment. You asked if there is something you need to change. If you're getting flaws, the answer is yes. Now you have to dial in your methods or your equipment. Anytime you're consistantly getting bad results, you need to figure out what you're doing wrong and change it.

Usually it's one of about three things, not hot enough, not long enough, or not clean enough. Heat, timing, and cleanness. All three of these factors have to be accounted for in the process whether you use flux or not.

I would take one factor, let's say heat, and work on it (reinsulate your forge, etc. ) and when you're satisfied that you have enough available heat, take note of any changes in results. Then work on timing, soaking, etc. You can narrow it down and then stick with what works.

One thing to watch for. I find that if there is going to be a flaw, it usually is in the first weld of the billet. There are a few things about the first weld that you have to overcome.

The size of the billet is at it largest size, requiring special attention to the soak.

The material is in thinner layers, requiring it to be arc weld tacked in the right places so it wont bow open.

More layers mean more potential area that has to be protected from oxygen.

Dont give up.

Rob and Lin pretty well summed it up. All I can add is that I've pretty well done away with flaws by grinding off all the mill scale before I stack my billet. I also grind off the scale before each re-stack and weld. I use plain old 20 mule team borax for flux. From time to time you will get a flaw. It just happens, if you follow the advise these guys have offered, you will have much better results.

Dale

Hello Andrew. I think the basics have been covered pretty well. I make sure my steels are clean and also have the 1084 on the outside. I usually start with 11 layers, 6 of 1084 and 5 of 15N20. I normally use borax, either 20 mule team or anhydrous.

I would start out with a smaller billet, say 9 or 11 layers, and work on getting those to weld up. Once you get the process down and repeatable, then you can move up to bigger things.

A question. How large are the spots? They could be blisters which would indicate not enough heat or stuff in between the layers. Or, I wonder if it might have something to do with the metal filings in the flux? Since we do not know what the metal filings are, what do they do when you get up to welding heat? Just a thought.

Keep on with your work and let us know how it goes.

Good luck

Brion

Just answered one of my own questions. Got to love Google. The flux contains iron filings, so I have to wonder if that might have something to do with the spots.

Andrew, a suggestion would be to try a different flux, wether borax or kerosene, and see what results you get.

Let us know.

Brion

Thank you everyone for your input. My dad has a overstock business and I saw some 5 gallon buckets of kerosene in his truck the other day so I think I may see if I can get some from him. I will place the 1084 on the outside next time. The 15n20 is .72in thick and the 1084 is 1/8in thick.

One other thing, the 1084 is pretty clean, I don't know what kind of finish it is but it is not black and it is not sanded. The 15n20, however, has been ground and the grind lines are running the length of the stock. Is it possible that the flux could have gotten stuck in little pockets in there? Should I sand those out, basically just grind it vertical to the bar stock or am I over complicating?

Andrew, after looking back at your OP one thing I forgot to mention is: don't hammer this by hand. Just pull it out of the forge and hammer it with your little giant. If you are hammering it by hand first, the steel is cooling while you are doing it and you may not be applying enough pressure while the steel is hot to get the different layers to stick and this might explain why you are getting the voids. By the way- no offence meant to those who use flux - I just don't use it and I get pretty good welds every time without it. I also use WD-40 and get great welds with that as well.

Concerning the grind lines in your 15N20 I wouldn't worry about those. As long as you have bare metal to bare metal and it is clean you should do ok.

Rob Thomas

Andrew

That flux that has filings in it is not much good for welding layers of steel together. I tried this stuff years ago and had results as you did. It doesnt seem to flow inbetween the layers very well, and I don't think it comes out as well either. I went to using this flux from Centaur forge: gas forge borax

This is a great flux in my opinion. It does not take much and it doesn't cake up or get funky in high humidity conditions which we have here in Iowa.

I am still using this flux, but am going to try the keorsene thing when I run out of flux <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Brian