I've been reading a bit on canister and have a few questions.
I have some wrought iron or mild steel historical nails that I'd like to put in a can with some 1095 powder. Goal will be to make a solid billet with the nails that I can put into the stack with 1084/15n20, then push to a high layer count to get the carbon diffusion I'd need to overcome the nails in the mix.
Next, I've read varying reports on how clean the stuff has to be inside the can. I've got typical rusty/crusty nails. Should I grind them down to clean metal bits, or would a wire wheel be sufficient? I've seen smiths I respect comment that the stuff inside the can doesn't have to be as clean to work.
Given that pattern distortion isn't relevant in this case, is there any reason I couldn't just do a rectangular can with 1084 on the long sides and mild on the short sides? That way I'd just weld the whole thing solid, grind off the edges, then go forward? I'm thinking the "can" could be 2" wide 1084 with maybe 1" or 3/4" sides?
Personally, when I "clean" thing for canister inclusion, the least I will do is bead/sand blast it. Then make sure it gets cleans with acetone before going into the "can".
When it comes to a "can", you're not going to get much "carbon diffusion" that's the blessing....and the curse of canister welding, depending on how you look at it, and what you're seeking to achieve.
When you speak of using 1084 for the exterior of the can....there's no reason you can't, as long as you DO NOT leave it there/use it in the end product. The material on the exterior of any "can" is going to be so screwed up with heat/duration during the process, it's pretty much useless in the end.
The other issue you will find with mixing mild and carbon steel is that any MIG/Stick welds between the two will tend to split/tear very quickly into the forging/welding process. If they last the first welding heat or two, you should be OK....if a weld breaks on the first weld, you're likely going to watch some of the contents run/dribble out onto the shop floor.
Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net
Thanks, Ed. I'm going to incorporate the nail/1095 powder billet into further stacks, not as a stand alone blade. I figure by the time I go through a dozen welding heats and thin the layers out, I might have the carbon migration enough to overcome the nails.
I hadn't thought about the time at welding heat for the can itself. I can see how long soaks and multiple heats to get the can welded would work against using a carbon steel can.
For what it’s worth I’ve done a bunch of canister with old nails. I completely avoided the issue of carbon content in the nails by forging the canister Damascus and then making a san-mai with a core of high carbon steel. Worked great, looked great. Food for thought
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For what it’s worth I’ve done a bunch of canister with old nails. I completely avoided the issue of carbon content in the nails by forging the canister Damascus and then making a san-mai with a core of high carbon steel. Worked great, looked great. Food for thought
Good idea. Got a pic of one of the nail billets? Love to see what it turned out like. I'm committed to incorporating some of the nail billet into an 1836 layer billet, but I sure could use the nail billet for some San Mai as well.
Out of curiosity how thick were the nails. cause if they said 3/16ths of an inch or more i would have squared stacked forge welded a few bars of 5-13 then forge welded and twisted them to make interesting Viking/Celtic muti bar twist core then forge welded on a high carbon edge.
