Cool experiment Mr. Parris. Well done,thank you for sharing. They do both look really good, but the accuracy definitely goes to the stock removal.

It depends entirely on the pattern and how it is forged.

Exactly Karl. The trick to knowing what will happen is to extend your imagination and picture the pattern in your head as it becomes stretched and elongated through forging. The layers will open up and get further apart, the twists will untwist slightly, the ladders will get wider and distorted, etc. The same is essentially true for stock removal, but in a different manner. You have to imagine how the pattern changes as you grind through the cross section. You can never truly "see" what the final product will look like, but it gets you thinking about pattern welding in three dimensions, rather than just two. Try the same test with a simple twisted bar. The pattern will change dramatically between the two versions. Just as it will change with a hollow grind versus a flat grind.

Nice test Tucker. It looks like you ended up with a couple of kitchen knives to finish!

Good job!

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It depends entirely on the pattern and how it is forged.

i tried to go with a raindrop pattern so you could see the elongation in the pattern between the two blades. i don't think i drilled my holes deep enough though. truth be told i like both patterns.

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Cool experiment Mr. Parris. Well done,thank you for sharing. They do both look really good, but the accuracy definitely goes to the stock removal.

Thanks i will be doing a side by side comparison of a twist pattern next.

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Exactly Karl. The trick to knowing what will happen is to extend your imagination and picture the pattern in your head as it becomes stretched and elongated through forging. The layers will open up and get further apart, the twists will untwist slightly, the ladders will get wider and distorted, etc. The same is essentially true for stock removal, but in a different manner. You have to imagine how the pattern changes as you grind through the cross section. You can never truly "see" what the final product will look like, but it gets you thinking about pattern welding in three dimensions, rather than just two. Try the same test with a simple twisted bar. The pattern will change dramatically between the two versions. Just as it will change with a hollow grind versus a flat grind.

Nice test Tucker. It looks like you ended up with a couple of kitchen knives to finish!

Good job!

Joshua, thanks for the detailed reply. Im new to this, pattern welding world, but am starting to understand it as 3d rather then 2d. i attempted my first W pattern twist last night and that will really force you to think in 3d. I think i will try your recommendation and redo this experiment with a twisted pattern. I have noticed in the past that when forging a lazy twist and hand hammering the primary bevels gives a much more random look then grinding the bevels.

are there patterns that you choose to go stock removal over forging? or it just depends on the pattern you are trying to get.

Tucker,

A technique that Brian Thie showed us while at The Heartland Symposium which you may want to experiment with is to make a mock billet from alternate layers of differently colored modeling clay. [He started by slicing layers with a cheese slicer from the two bricks of clay.]

<img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> This isn't as much fun as welding steels together but works the same way and is much faster if you are wanting to see an outcome before investing the time to make Damascus.

Gary

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Tucker,

A technique that Brian Thie showed us while at The Heartland Symposium which you may want to experiment with is to make a mock billet from alternate layers of differently colored modeling clay. [He started by slicing layers with a cheese slicer from the two bricks of clay.]

<img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> This isn't as much fun as welding steels together but works the same way and is much faster if you are wanting to see an outcome before investing the time to make Damascus.

Gary

Gary

that is a good idea! i need to go buy some modeling clay. although i like my test pieces to turn into blades i think the clay would really help in more complex patterns.

thanks

tucker

Thank you Mr. Parris. As I began as a stock removal guy and switch to forging it was nice to see the difference and advantages of each. Thank you for taking the time to share with us.

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Thank you Mr. Parris. As I began as a stock removal guy and switch to forging it was nice to see the difference and advantages of each. Thank you for taking the time to share with us.

Dean it was a fun experiment to try. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Tucker

This is the clay that Gary referred to: clay from Dick Blick art supply

I have also used Play-Doh as well with good success. The clay is more expensive, but as Gary said, you can cut your "Layers of Steel" with a cheese slicer. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

After forming your clay billet, use a very fine wire or dental floss to cut the clay without smearing the pattern.

Brian

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Joshua, thanks for the detailed reply. Im new to this, pattern welding world, but am starting to understand it as 3d rather then 2d. i attempted my first W pattern twist last night and that will really force you to think in 3d. I think i will try your recommendation and redo this experiment with a twisted pattern. I have noticed in the past that when forging a lazy twist and hand hammering the primary bevels gives a much more random look then grinding the bevels.

are there patterns that you choose to go stock removal over forging? or it just depends on the pattern you are trying to get.

Being that this "pattern welding world" is like 1000 years old, I think we all are relatively "new" to it! <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//tongue.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

I love playing around with pattern welding, either in steel or Mokume. I am constantly trying to imagine a pattern and trying to decipher how to get there from a starting point. It's a backwards thinking process that intrigues me. I still remember slicing open a twisted bar lengthwise and seeing the inside of a twist. It was nothing like I imagined it would be. Looking at it though, I thought it would make a great looking dagger if I rewelded the bars together inside out. My limited understanding of forging vs. stock removal at the time told me that stock removal would best preserve what I was looking at and I started grinding away. Boy was that a surprise. The pattern completely changed as I ground through it. The end product was very pretty (luckily) and you would never have thought it started as a simple twist.

Now I think that twist patterns change more during stock removal and less during forging. End patterns and flat laminates are the opposite. They change less during stock removal and more during forging. I still may be wrong about that too!