Evan, I bought 2 of the hybrid burners to build a forge around but never have ran them. I ended up buying a 2 burner Chile forge and I really like it. The burners both seem to run the same and heats up quickly. And they are some cheaper than hybrid burners. I would suggest that you coat the inside with ITC100 I ran my forge without it for a bit then coated it the ITC100 and made a big difference on how hot it gets with less gas. Landon

The vertical/Fogg forge is incredibly easy to build and control, and awesomely versatile.

Don't over-think it.

Blow some air through a tube and add some propane.

My blower is 1 1/2" ID black pipe. Control the air and use a needle valve for the gas.

Light it.

I'm with Karl on this one. I built a very similar rig after using venturi style burners for a long time. It can be a little tricky getting the gas/air ratio adjusted at first, but once you do, it's set and forget. I added one more valve than Karl has shown. I added a 4-position ball valve between the shut off and needle valves. This allowed me to have three settings almost instantaneously. Two clicks open was for general forging, three clicks was for welding heat. One click was a low idle. I just had to close the air valve a quarter turn at 2 clicks to prevent high oxidation. The big difference between burner types is the blower. A blower gets you much higher heats with less fuel use. This is my forge right after I turned it off at welding heat. It is not running in this photo. (nice tractor Karl!)

Evan

I have built two forges. First forge is a horizontal forge with ventura burners that I also made. This forge is very good for general forging.

I have also built a built a vertical / Don Fogg type with a blown burner. This is the only way to go for welding / making damascus.

Blown burners are very simple to make and operate.

GO with what Karl has told you. The burners are easy to build and all you need is the little Dayton squirrel cage blower. Mine is 146cfm I

think, much like Karl has on his. Maybe the same model.

These blowers are quiet and supplies more air than you need, also inexpensive. The body on my burner is 2" pipe but reducing down to 1 1/2"

pipe for the burner, the part of the pipe that is in the forge.

Anthony Griggs

Thank you so much for the advice guys- I really appreciate the wisdom from the more experienced smiths. I'm going to go with the blower set-up.

Ok, two more questions:

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Evan, I use a blower set up as well.

My pressure is typically under 5 psi, but you will have to see what works best with your setup.

My setup is the 120 gallon LP tank, High pressure regulator (steps down to 10 psi so I don't have so much pressure going into the shop), Ball valve, another regulator in the shop, and needle valve. The ball valve is for safety and the needle valve is on the burner for flame adjustment.

Brian

Evan

Excuse me I do not mean to but in on your question to Joshua. I run my vertical forge on 4 psi, I can run it on higher psi but there is no need.

The needle valve is for adjusting the gas, the ball valve is your on and off valve. Once I got my forge tuned / gas - air adjusted I very seldom

make any adjustment with the needle valve. Just turn on the gas with the ball valve and turn it off when you are done.

As a note on lighting, turn the blower on first and open up the gate valve one or two turns to light, You will have to play with your forge to find

out what it likes.

After my forge warms up a little, I open up the air/gate valve about one more turn. I hope this helps.

Look at karl's pictures of his burner, there are three valves. The largest is the gate valve, just below the blower. It is your air adjustment.

then on the gas/propane side you see the ball/on and off valve. Then the T handled valve is the needle valve.

Anthony Griggs

Hello Evan

A safety feature I added to my Vertical forge is a selanoid (SP) gas valve.

If for some unknown reason your blower loses power. Cord being disconnected, or your power supplier dropping you out.

This also eliminates lighting the forge before you have the blower going.

Russell

I run both I prefer the venturi burners for general forging and find them to be very efficient, I use a blown burner for welding. two reasons 1 greater control over the atmosphere in the forge at high temps 2 blown burners are not effected by back pressure. With the venturi i was having issues getting a rich enough mix at high temps with out burner woofing or the mix changing when.I closed off a door to the forge. As far as fuel useage I find the blown burner run through gass around the same or a bit faster then the venturi. Pressure is not necessarily a indacator of fuel useage a flow meter would be. 4pis running through a 1/16" orifice is more fuel than 10psi running through a 0.025 orifice.

Evan, to answer the question:

Joshua, with the ball valve between the shut-off and the needle valve, does that mean you run the needle valve wide open and use the ball valve for control?

Look at Karl's photo of the burner configuration above. The blower comes in the back side through a standard plumbing gate valve. That adjusts the air flow. The gas comes in downstream of the air (this is critical). First control is a quarter-turn ball valve. This is the main on/off valve. I run with this full open. The next valve in Karl's rig is the needle valve. This is instead of the "orifice" that other rigs use and is where you adjust the gas to get the gas/air mixture set (adjust air with the gate valve). I inserted a 4-position valve in between the needle and quarter turn gas valves. I set it at 75% open (3 clicks) and adjusted my air/gas mix to get a welding heat. Turning down to 50% open (2 clicks) limits the pressure/gas volume going through the needle valve and lowers the heat down to a usable forging heat. I typically ran this setup at around 4-5 psi with the burner that Karl shows. My new burner (in the photo above) is a ribbon burner and I run it at 3-3.5 psi. All heat control is accomplished with the 4-position ball valve. Light it at 2 clicks and adjust from there to welding heat (if needed) or leave it be and forge away.Higher heats use more fuel and require more air. Use light adjustments at the gate valve for different heats.

Also looking at Karl's photo you will notice that the burner end is a short threaded nipple. I assume this is because he has to replace the burner end from time to time (I know I had to) as it gets burned up from use. This is a consumable part and should be replaced when it gets too short to extend into the forge past the lining.

i didn't read through all these comments but i can attest to how awesome the TREX burner from hybrid burners is. absolutely love mine. the forge i use is a don fog style vertical exactly like Karl's above only mines powered by a single TREX burner. it takes about 15 minutes to get up to temp and my general forging temps are around 5-7 psi. the flame is incredibly easy to adjust, which is unlike most venturi burners. i will only use hybrid burners from here on out. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

oh and the insulation is incredibly important or it won't work, or at least not to its full potential. the ITC 100 coating is essential IMO. theres another alternative thats literally half the price per pint sold by hyrbidburners called HYB-UV. basically liquid glass. get some! <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

What Matthew said.

I settled on aspirated/atmospheric/venturi burners for basic blacksmithing. They're especially easy to manage with classes of high school students with no electrical cords and way less dragons breath type issues. On the other hand, as Matthew said, they can blow back if pressure is set too low or it's breezy. As with the forced air burners, you can make them or buy them. David at Chile forge will sell just his burners (stainless and nickle plated) and the t-rex hybrids are good too. As I recall, both run in the $200 range.

Have you looked at Wayne Suhrbier's, High Temperature Tools site? He sells more affordable burners in kit form or completed (both styles).

Hey Guys,

Anyone have any more info on the specs or build for that Fogg style forge? I've been wanting to make one...

Thanks!

|quoted:

Hey Guys,

Anyone have any more info on the specs or build for that Fogg style forge? I've been wanting to make one...

Thanks!

Ed,

Take a look at the photos that Karl posted above and everything is there. The size of the pot is the only real variable, so make it out of what ever you can get a hold of (old water heater tanks work well) but it should have at least 14 inches interior diameter to start and preferably more (if the lining is 2 inches thick, the diameter is reduced by 4 inches). The burner comes in at the bottom and the doors (front and back) will be 4-6 inches above the burner, so your pot will be at least 16 inches tall (2" for the burner hole, 4"-6" clearance, 3"-4" for the door, 4"-6" clearance) and maybe taller. The blower is fairly standard, the burner is either 1-1/2 inch or 2 inch pipe, so the gate vale and other pipe fitting are sized to whichever you choose. I brought my burner in at an off-angle to "swirl" the flame around the bottom of the pot, rather than straight in when I built mine. I think I made some shop drawings once upon a time. I'll look through some old files if you think it would help.