Thank you Kyle. I had seen this yesterday and it is not a good thing. So yes send the e-mail. Remember to keep it professional and state facts clearly.

Brion

I just pulled this from another forum. I hope the ABS board will also send a response. It may carry a little more weight since it represents the entire group.

David Warther (pre-ban ivory dealer and carver)...

Ivory Ban - The Presidential Advisory Committee that met 12/16/13 does plan to recommend a total ban on ivory sales, within the US, to the task force on Wildlife Trafficking. If you want to oppose that action please email [email protected] before December 28th when they file their report. I have attached a letter you can use but feel free to change it as may fit your interests and work.

This is not a ban on new ivory but rather a ban on the sale of ALL ivory that is in any form. This includes pre-ban and antique ivory in musical instruments, knives, guns, cues, etc. and will make Grandma's piano illegal to sell if it has ivory keys. This sounds ludicrous but it is true. If this passes then it will take the form of a bill that will be set before Congress in 2014.

Presently this ban on the sale of ivory is to include fossil mammoth ivory as well as pre-ban and antique elephant ivory.

Please forward this information to everyone you think may want to voice their opposition to this type of government control.

Sincerely,

David Warther

2561 Crestview Dr. NW

Dover, Ohio 44622

http://www.guitarpartsandmore.com/

============================================================

ATTACHMENT...

Dear Advisory Committee,

I stand against a total ban of all ivory sales in the US.

As called for in the Presidential Executive Order I ask that the recommendations continue to allow for "legal and legitimate commerce.”

The ivory market in the US is stable and /or declining, and the seizure records indicate that a high proportion of the seizures made were personal effects lacking the correct paperwork, not the “blood tusks” spoken about in the media. The Elephant Trade Information System (ETIS) analysis indicated that the amount of ivory (by weight) seized annually has not increased in recent years. WE are not the consumers of the poached ivory. Therefore banning ivory sales within the US will do nothing to save the remaining world population of elephants.

CITES MIKE report (Monitoring the Illegal Killing of Elephants) September 2013 report, page 64 analysis states "Africa's elephant populations are managed sustainably" and that in 2013 the quota for permits for legal elephants was 1350 animals. There is legal trade that can be monitored with DNA testing and permitting. Enforcing and policing a ban would use funds that should be used to support the ban on imports already in effect.

I fully support the CITES rules, closing international borders to elephant ivory trade, a law already in effect that should be fully supported and enforced. I stand against a total ban of all ivory commerce within our United States borders, a decision that would be an enforcement nightmare. Like prohibition it will cause a new wave of illicit commerce where a legitimate one now exists. Museums, antique dealers, collectors, artisans and individual citizens have invested in a legal and valuable material. Sanctioned trade in ivory that is legal (culled and pre-ban) and comes from unthreatened sources (mammoth, boar, warthog, antique and recycled products) can pose no possible threat to elephant herds in the wild.

I believe our mutual goals are the same and a solution can be reached. Please keep the focus where it belongs. To increase the elephant population the killing must be stopped in Africa and at its borders.

Respectfully Submitted,

Larry

As soon as I saw the first post on this topic by Kyle Royer I started to do some research on this issue to get more of the facts. I located an article in the Washington Post which provides some additional background and I have attached a link to the October 27, 2013 article at, Click: Washington Post Article

I just sent an email this morning to ABS Chairman Joe Keeslar with your recommendation for action by the ABS Board of Directors.

We need to get everyone we can to send the attachment in Larry Fuegen's post as quickly as possible.

Send to you respective senators and congressman as well. Should this get past committee it will go before congress as a bill for vote in 2014.

Bing

I've got a friend that works for Texas Rep Joe Barton. He is going to forward it to his legislative people. He said it sounds like something that the congressman would be on our side with. Get the news out!

The CKCA has a letter that can be cut and pasted and sent directly to the advisory committee. Everyone should do this and if you wish, you can change it or add your own comments.

Terry Vandeventer

This is a copy of the text from the CKCA email that Terry Vandeventer is referring to:

(CKCA Email today)

Total Ivory Ban

Ivory Ban - The Presidential Advisory Committee that met 12/16/13 does plan to recommend a total ban on ivory sales, within the US, to the task force on Wildlife Trafficking.

This will effect collectors, makers and anyone that sells within or to the USA. This will effect both US Makers and to International Makers that ship and/or sell to the USA.

If you want to oppose that action please email [email protected] before December 28th when they file their report. I have included a letter you can use but feel free to change it as may fit your interests and work.

This is not a ban on new ivory but rather a ban on the sale of ALL ivory that is in any form. This includes pre-ban and antique ivory in musical instruments, knives, guns, cues, etc. and will make Grandma's piano illegal to sell if it has ivory keys. This sounds ludicrous but it is true. If this passes then it will take the form of a bill that will be set before Congress in 2014.

Presently this ban on the sale of ivory is to include fossil mammoth ivory as well as pre-ban and antique elephant ivory.

Please forward this information to everyone you think may want to voice their opposition to this type of government control.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Please copy and paste the below into an email and have everyone you know to do the same.

Dear Advisory Committee,

I stand against a total ban of all ivory sales in the US.

As called for in the Presidential Executive Order I ask that the recommendations continue to allow for "legal and legitimate commerce".

The ivory market in the US is stable and /or declining, and the seizure records indicate that a high proportion of the seizures made were personal effects lacking the correct paperwork, not the "blood tusks " spoken about in the media. The Elephant Trade Information System (ETIS) analysis indicated that the amount of ivory (by weight) seized annually has not increased in recent years. WE are not the consumers of the poached ivory. Therefore banning ivory sales within the US will do nothing to save the remaining world population of elephants.

CITES MIKE report (Monitoring the Illegal Killing of Elephants) September 2013 report, page 64 analysis states "Africa's elephant populations are managed sustainably" and that in 2013 the quota for permits for legal elephants was 1350 animals. There is legal trade that can be monitored with DNA testing and permitting. Enforcing and policing a ban would use funds that should be used to support the ban on imports already in effect.

I fully support the CITES rules, closing international borders to elephant ivory trade, a law already in effect that should be fully supported and enforced. I stand against a total ban of all ivory commerce within our United States borders, a decision that would be an enforcement nightmare. Like prohibition it will cause a new wave of illicit commerce where a legitimate one now exists. Museums, antique dealers, collectors, artisans and individual citizens have invested in a legal and valuable material. Sanctioned trade in ivory that is legal (culled and pre-ban) and comes from unthreatened sources (mammoth, boar, warthog, antique and recycled products) can pose no possible threat to elephant herds in the wild.

I believe our mutual goals are the same and a solution can be reached. Please keep the focus where it belongs. To increase the elephant population the killing must be stopped in Africa and at its borders.

Respectfully Submitted,

(your name here)

We need to get as many people as possible to send out this attachment in an e-mail to [email protected] before December 28th if we want to keep the use of fossil walrus, mammoth and pre-ban ivory. (End of CKCA Email)

Has anybody heard anything yet? There doesn't seem to be much excitement about this among smiths and collectors. How many of you have sent your letters to the Advisory Committee? We have to be realistic about this. Elephant ivory is lost. That's just a fact. But ancient ivories must not be banned. I'm sitting on $10,000 worth of mammoth ivory. Other makers pretty much use nothing but ancient ivories and maintain much larger stockpiles. My clients want premium Sambar Stag, Wooly Mammoth (Mastadon), and ancient Walrus. NONE of my clients want anything else, especially wood or Giraffe bone. If these ancient ivories are banned, we will see the art of bladesmithing take a nose-dive. High-end collectors will stop collecting. The after-market will be nonexistent for all ivory-handled pieces, and they will not be able to sell their valuable collections. Suppliers of ancient ivories will become bankrupt and unable to liquidate their inventories.

This is bad, people! Surly some members who are more savvy about the ins and outs of government procedures could address the possibility of litigation to free up these old ivories if they end up being included in the ban. If every member who routinely uses mammoth and old walrus donates $300 to $500 (the cost of a couple sets of scales), along with contributions by the major knife organizations (ABS, CKCA, Knifemaker's Guild, regional knife clubs & associations, the suppliers themselves, AKI, individual collectors of high-end knives, etc., we might be able to challenge this irresponsible proposal.

Thanks for letting me vent. Please, if anybody hears any news or has any suggestions, please post it here. AND, spread the word! At this point, most of the collectors and makers I spoken with have been completely unaware of the impending situation.

Terry L. Vandeventer

ABS MS

I sent this info to a collector who has some connection to major art and antique collectors in the NYC area. He was going to check with them but the holiday season may have made that difficult. He pointed out that the knife and gun part of this doesn't even compare to the dollars tied up in other collectables that have ivory as part of their materials. It's unfortunate that these committees are made up of people who have an agenda and only care about their agenda or they rely on experts to help them make their decisions or recommendations. In this case it looks like animal rights groups get to have the input. If this does lead to a bill hopefully rational minds will prevail and a make a distinction between new and old elephant ivory and protect ancient ivory from any type of ban but we all need to pay attention and contact our customers and leaders in Washington.

As far as other materials for handles there are some VERY HIGH END knives with no ivory being sold. As makers our only limitation is how we use the materials we have access to no matter if it is natural or man-made. Collectors will collect if we offer them work that is exciting and innovative.

If my friend can find out anything I'll pass it along.

I just saw a petition circulating on facebook by the Wildlife Conservation Society in favor of the ban.

Recent update http://www.latimes.com/search/dispatcher.front?Query=ivory+ban&target=adv_article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/new-rules-will-ban-import-and-export-of-ivory-and-make-it-harder-than-ever-to-sell/2014/02/11/de666c5a-934e-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

I couldn't tell, by the article, if the ban is in effect immediately or will start later.

Dale

Not sure when this takes effect or if there will be time for public comment. I think there are still unanswered questions about how a person can document the age of the ivory on a piece. There have been a lot of things made in the last 20 years with elephant ivory and no documents were provided or they have been lost when the pieces changed hands. I'm glad I never used any elephant ivory on any of my knives but that sure doesn't help the collectors who have a lot of ivory in their collections.