I took some logging money and bought a decent forge, 2x72 grinder, cutting torch, and a NC Anvil. I have 2 flat bit tongs, one of which I kinda turned into wolf jaw tongs, and some low grade store bought hammers. My money is tight and I need more tools, so to get practice and tools that I need, I intend to forge my own. My question is what should I be concentrating on making first and what steels should I be using? Recycled steels would be my first choice because of price and access, however for tongs I think I would just buy some round stock.
My other thought is economy. I have a 3-burner 3-door majestic and in my opinion it burns through the propane pretty fast. Does anyone think I would actually save money by buying properly sized stock instead of re-shaping scrap?
Another thought about economy. I have a very small propane cutting torch head that I was using for a rosebud to straighten some coil spring. It seems that it was way faster than my forge and it was only one burner going instead of 3 but there was the using of the oxygen. Does anyone think it's more economical to use a propane torch over a 3-burner forge when you don't need all that length for your project?
And final though about economy, I was thinking that I would just use 1 burner when I only needed one, but then I noticed a lot of heat coming up through the burners that were not in use so I decided to burn all three at once or not at all. Has anyone here consistently just used 1 or 2 burners on a 3-burner forge and will it damage the forge or will it be just fine to use only one burner?
My other thought is economy. I have a 3-burner 3-door majestic and in my opinion it burns through the propane pretty fast. Does anyone think I would actually save money by buying properly sized stock instead of re-shaping scrap?
You know the answer to that question. A36 is available directly from steel suppliers. At least here in Arkansas. Materials appropriate for tongs is not too expensive. 5/8 or 3/4 square is what I use.
A word about economy. There is economy of time and economy of money. We often equate them the same but sometimes we have more of one than the other. Also sometimes a persons lack of skills and ability to move materials by hand lowers efficiency when it comes to either types of heat sources. Practice at forging these tools and getting efficient will improve the situation by itself, but this again takes time and fuel.
There's no way out of it. You will be out more money in the early stages of your forging career, due to inefficiency, than later. The thing now is to decide which heat source. I prefer coal with a bellows or a hand cranked blower. When you stop cranking, the air shuts off and you're not wasting as much heat. The best scenario in my opinion, under your circumstances as I understand it, is a coal forge, a trip hammer, and lots of practice.
I wont address the gas forge questions. I don't use that type.
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You know the answer to that question. A36 is available directly from steel suppliers. At least here in Arkansas. Materials appropriate for tongs is not too expensive. 5/8 or 3/4 square is what I use.
A word about economy. There is economy of time and economy of money. We often equate them the same but sometimes we have more of one than the other. Also sometimes a persons lack of skills and ability to move materials by hand lowers efficiency when it comes to either types of heat sources. Practice at forging these tools and getting efficient will improve the situation by itself, but this again takes time and fuel.
There's no way out of it. You will be out more money in the early stages of your forging career, due to inefficiency, than later. The thing now is to decide which heat source. I prefer coal with a bellows or a hand cranked blower. When you stop cranking, the air shuts off and you're not wasting as much heat. The best scenario in my opinion, under your circumstances as I understand it, is a coal forge, a trip hammer, and lots of practice.
I wont address the gas forge questions. I don't use that type.
Thank you for taking the time to address this, I am already of a mind to primarily use a coal forge, but then your talking about the economics of time and money again. Taking the time to build a proper smithy and creating a space for a coal forge, also the investment of building or buying a suitable coal forge. I am actually leaning in the long term towards charcoal because I have a never ending supply of hardwood. A trip hammer would definitely pay off in the long run. Again, thank you.
I started with a coal forge many years ago , but asthma has lead me to gas forges for day to day use. the majestic forges are very inefficient, bot you can make them better. first get some soft fire brick and block the doors off some, you lose a lot of heat out of those wide open doors. you can run a single burner just cap the unused burners so they are not acting like chimneys, I have seen masking tape used for this and it seemed to work. last replacing the hard firebrick in the forge with something that has some R value will also help to increase the efficiency of the forge a great deal. That is the key to gas forge efficiency, we ran a forge about the same internal volume of the majestic off a single atmospheric burner for years with no trouble getting to welding heat. That forge worked so well because it was well insulated with 2" Kawool, a soft fire brick floor and doors the were sized to the work keeping the heat in.
for materials I make my pick up tongs from 1/2" Sq and my blade tongs from 5/8" Sq I use a 3/8" rivet in the blade tongs and a 1/4" in the pickups. I buy my rivets from McMaster-Carr (I have found making rivets to be not worth my time)
MP
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I started with a coal forge many years ago , but asthma has lead me to gas forges for day to day use. the majestic forges are very inefficient, bot you can make them better. first get some soft fire brick and block the doors off some, you lose a lot of heat out of those wide open doors. you can run a single burner just cap the unused burners so they are not acting like chimneys, I have seen masking tape used for this and it seemed to work. last replacing the hard firebrick in the forge with something that has some R value will also help to increase the efficiency of the forge a great deal. That is the key to gas forge efficiency, we ran a forge about the same internal volume of the majestic off a single atmospheric burner for years with no trouble getting to welding heat. That forge worked so well because it was well insulated with 2" Kawool, a soft fire brick floor and doors the were sized to the work keeping the heat in.
for materials I make my pick up tongs from 1/2" Sq and my blade tongs from 5/8" Sq I use a 3/8" rivet in the blade tongs and a 1/4" in the pickups. I buy my rivets from McMaster-Carr (I have found making rivets to be not worth my time)
MP
Excellent, except now I feel really stupid for not thinking of blocking the chimney's off. I think I'll just make some steel plates to cover the one's I don't use. Are you saying to replace my lining with kaowool and then coat it with something, or are you saying to use the light firebrick instead of the heavy. I am pretty sure it already has the lighter fire brick but I will double check. Lin says to use a36 steel I assume he's talking about tongs, what about hardy tools? Should they be high carbon or mild steel. Also, should I use high carbon for hot cut tools or will mild do. Or just use whatever is closest to the right size?
Mild (A36) for tongs.
4140 (axle material) or comparable for hardy tools. This is medium carbon. Tools that are going to be struck with a hammer, should be slightly less hard than your hammer. That can be achieved by using a steel with lower carbon or by differential heat treatment or both. There are lots of possible steels to use, but choosing a steel with the right amount of carbon in the first place will make the heat treatment easier. Also, in the case of a hardy cut off, using medium speed steel will make it easier to file when you need to sharpen.
Yes, always get the size of starting stock closest to your finished product when possible.
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Mild (A36) for tongs.
4140 (axle material) or comparable for hardy tools. This is medium carbon. Tools that are going to be struck with a hammer, should be slightly less hard than your hammer. That can be achieved by using a steel with lower carbon or by differential heat treatment or both. There are lots of possible steels to use, but choosing a steel with the right amount of carbon in the first place will make the heat treatment easier. Also, in the case of a hardy cut off, using medium speed steel will make it easier to file when you need to sharpen.
Yes, always get the size of starting stock closest to your finished product when possible.
Thank you for the clarification.
I appreciate both of you for taking the time to answer.
I use mild steel for tongs.
My general starting dimension is 3/8"X1"X8"
For hardy tools 4140 or 1050.
Breaker bits are a good source of steel for hot cuts and bicks as well as small hammers.
They are usually 1045 with a good bit of manganese.
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I use mild steel for tongs.
My general starting dimension is 3/8"X1"X8"
For hardy tools 4140 or 1050.
Breaker bits are a good source of steel for hot cuts and bicks as well as small hammers.
They are usually 1045 with a good bit of manganese.
Thank you
I appreciate the helpfulness
