I called the contact number on the Houghton website and they gave me a regional contact. He found out exactly which oil I needed and told me where I could purchase locally. I would give them a call. Very nice people all the way down the line.

Seth

Phil, I can understand your grief, to give you an idea there was a time when $250 would have got me a 55 gallon drum of #50, and I used to sell off 5 gallons at a time for no more than $50 a pop to cover all of my costs. But alas Parks has become impossible to work with anymore. I would encourage you to find a phone number for Houghton and continue trying to contact them; their R&D and lab guy Dr. Mackenzie has assured me that they have products every bit as fast and even more stable over long term use. Your focus on an actual dedicated quench oil makes me want to help in any way that I can since the single biggest excuse other people have used, for not treating themselves to one of the quickest steps to consistent results, has always been the expense. From Grinders to epoxy virtually no bladesmith would hesitate to strongly advise top of the line products costing many times more than the cheaper alternatives but not so with something as critical as heat treating supplies. The flaws of such an argument was always easily pointed out until the whole Parks issue gave fuel to that line of thinking. This is why I am now steering people to Houghton since many of the products you can buy under other repackaged names come from them anyhow. I do realize that I am preaching to the choir here as you obviously get exactly what I am saying.

If you cannot get what you need through Houghton I would also suggest to you, or anybody else, to look through the yellow pages to find any supplier of oil products in your area. Outlets selling a wide variety of lubricating products will also have catalogs from countless companies that will also make quench oils, and that local outlet will have a much easier time ordering it and getting it delivered than you would. This is exactly how I found an unknown product years ago call Amoquench (give you two guesses who made it <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmiths.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />) which worked quite well until I found more specific oils. Also don't forget places like MSC, Production Tool Supply and other industrial suppliers who will carry smaller quantities of quenchants. The quantity is really at the heart of the issue here, the folks who make these products make volumes most knifemakers do not comprehend and sell them to users who buy trucks, loaded with drums, at a time. These suppliers can lose money breaking open a drum and draining off 5 gallons at a time to sell to us. So either organizing ourselves into groups to buy drums, or saving up to get a lifetime supply ourselves will always be the easiest, and per gallon the cheapest, way to get the stuff from any supplier, even the local guys. This is exactly why we are at the mercy of other industries with our steel supply as well, a mill is just not going to waste time or money making a couple hundred pounds of steel for a knifemaker, so our only source are steel distributors who pull aside minuscule amounts from their inventory for serious steel users to sell to nickel and dime guys like us.

To make it easier for others reading this thread, I can also point out that while Parks #50 is one of the fastest oils, it is not necessarily the best choice for every steel. Each steel will have a corresponding category of quenchants they will work best in and the general rule is to use the quenchant that will give you most complete martensite conversion without over-stressing the steel, and in this pursuit the fastest is not always the best. I have a vat of #50 but never use it on many of the steel I work with because of its speed, instead I reserve it for 10XX series steels and W2 and use other quenchants better suited for O1, or L6.

There are generally three categories of quench oils – average quench oils, medium speed quench oils and fast quench oils. As bladesmiths we work mostly with the last two. Medium speed oils will fall in the 14-11 second range and will work fine for O-1, L6 5160, 52100, 8670M (Admiral L6) and other deeper hardening steels. Steels lacking alloying to the point that they need an oil in the 10-6 second range, the fast oils, would be W1, W2, 15n20, 1070, 1080, 1084, 1095. But even these steels may only require a medium speed oil if the smith prefers the soft back, in fact the medium speed oil will eliminate the headache of edge quenching by hardening only the edge in a more effective and safer full immersion of the blade.

Without going into the testing methods also remember that many of the oil speed measurements do not account for agitation, which will have a profound effect on the quench speed. The greater the agitation, either moving the blade or the oil the faster the quench speed.

I hope that all of these factors will help open up many more options for bladesmiths looking for quenchants and feeling trapped by just one company that has decided not to sell to them.

The link below will take you to a post I made on the Bladesmith forum recently. For full disclosure, I've not yet tested the oil I purchased so I can't speak to its performance yet. I plan to this weekend. Maybe this will help, though I can imagine shipping for you will be a hurdle; on the other hand, I've heard your home is a fantastic place.

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=17270&st=0&p=160714&fromsearch=1&#entry160714

Thanks so much Kevin!

I've been reading your suggestions and studying various heating ideas for some time now. I haven't actually purchased any of the pricey HT books yet, but have been scouring the forums for info. It's quite an effort of sorting, proving interesting as well as informative.

I believe I understand the shallow and deep hardening steels have different quenching speed, thus benefit from different quenchents. As an neophyte I have finally decided to only work with 1084 for the time being. There are only four other (known) steels I've gathered up a bit of: 15N20, W2, 5160, 52100). I had originally started working with 5160, but have set it aside for now. The same goes for the 15n20 I did a little damascus up with. So for now, all I need is some fast quenchent. I did speak with a customer rep at Houghton International and was referred to distributor rep. I am awaiting hearing back from him.

I hear you about possibly getting away with a little slower oil if I'm mainly interested in a hard edge and am alright with a softer spine (without having to do a partial differential quench). Problem is, I'd like to make some other types of blades too, such as kitchen cutlery, with more evenly distributed HT results throughout the blades. What is your opinion of the 9-11 sec McMaster Carr oil? Do you think if I heat it up, vibrate and circulate it, it would speed it up enough? So far the only products I can easily buy and have shipped to Hawaii for fair wages are the McMaster Carr ones.

Thanks for your help. All the best, Phil

PS - Houghton Int. customer support gave me a rep's number. I've left him a message. Hope to hear back from him soon. Also emailed Scott MacKenzie, but got an auto-response as he's out of the country until late August.

[hr]

For those who may be interested, below are various threads on the matter.

[list]

|quoted:

The link below will take you to a post I made on the Bladesmith forum recently. For full disclosure, I've not yet tested the oil I purchased so I can't speak to its performance yet. I plan to this weekend. Maybe this will help, though I can imagine shipping for you will be a hurdle; on the other hand, I've heard your home is a fantastic place.

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=17270&st=0&p=160714&fromsearch=1&#entry160714

Jarrett, How'd you make out with the Tulco oils?

- Thanks

|quoted:

Jarrett, How'd you make out with the Tulco oils?

- Thanks

Still haven't got back to the steel. I've been working on sheaths for the past couple of weeks. I plan to before the week is over. I'll let you know the results.

|quoted:

Jarrett, How'd you make out with the Tulco oils?

- Thanks

I finally made it back into the shop. I'll cut to the chase. Using O1 steel, forged, shaped, and grinded to 120 lengthwise prior to thermal treatments. Then 3x normalizing at 1500, 1400, and 1250 degrees(I left it here for 1.5 hours as some of the literature indicates doing so is good for stress relieving in )O1). HT; preheat to 1200 for 30 minutes, then up to 1500 and held for 20 minutes. The oil was warmed to 135. Quenched once, then tempered at 425 for 2 hours.

I don't have a hardness tester so I just rough it. I ground blade, edge first on down to a cutting edge with 120 grit then tested.

Brass rod; edge flexed over rod nicely with alot of force but did not chip or roll permanently.

Chopped into a 2x4 for a while, but with no handle, my hand got to aching a bit. Result was no deformity or damage to edge.

I got a little froggy and saw a 16p nail lying on the floor. Picked it up and whack; blade went about 2/3 the way through but did deform a bit, no chipping but did leave a mark. I don't know why but I did this twice more.

Then I stabbed the knife into a 2x4 and pryed sideways, the board chipped out and the blade was intact. Did this twice.

I'm still working on the knife. I am going to work on fitting the guard tommorrow. So there it is. For a first use, I am pleased with it. Seams to work great.

I'm certain I could have took the nail with a thicker grind. The edge on this one is pretty fine. I'm going to build another and go for a rematch. Now that I've tried it, I just want to see if I can.