Jared, I usually just draw the tang and most of the ricasso on small knives. Since they are mainly used for slicing and not chopping. Except when the blade had a hamon.

Brion

Jarad, what steel are you using? I question the "blue temper" you say you will be using. You may find that to be too soft for a working knife. It will sharpen fast and well, but it will probably dull just as fast. So, what steel and how do you plan to heat treat it?

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Jarad, what steel are you using? I question the "blue temper" you say you will be using. You may find that to be too soft for a working knife. It will sharpen fast and well, but it will probably dull just as fast. So, what steel and how do you plan to heat treat it?

Thanks for the replies. Josh it's 5160 from admiral steel. Gonna full quench and then temper to 400. 2 hrs×2 and let air cool in between. Then I plan to draw the tang to a blue temper.

Jared. I draw my tangs soft, to a grey. I would much rather have the tang bend than break. I do not see any issues with what you have planned.

Brion

I misunderstood. I thought you were drawing the whole knife to a blue temper. I don't use 5160 much anymore, but when I did, I would temper at 275 for one hour and then at 300 for the second hour. Here is a good link to some tempering data for different steels: http://tidewaterblacksmiths.net/2.html

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Jared. I draw my tangs soft, to a grey. I would much rather have the tang bend than break. I do not see any issues with what you have planned.

Brion

OK thanks Brion I'll bring it to a grey and call it good. How do you keep it from running into the blade on such a small knife. I was thinking I would put the blade in wet sand and draw the rest of it. I got the idea from one of the NESM videos I think.

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Thanks for the replies. Josh it's 5160 from admiral steel. Gonna full quench and then temper to 400. 2 hrs×2 and let air cool in between. Then I plan to draw the tang to a blue temper.

This is the course I would take. Many of the reported mechanical advantages of a soft back are questionable on a big knife, but on a knife the size you are talking it is rather pointless altogether. One bit of side advice that I would give, if that it alright, is in the area of steel selection. Some steels have inherent properties that make them suitable for certain types of knives, regardless of the heat treatment. Steels with less than .85% carbon like 5160 offer plenty of advantage in large choppers but have very little to offer small knives for fine slicing that could benefit from a very fine, abrasion resistant, edge. I know plenty of folks will claim they are very happy with small knives made from 5160, but I would strongly encourage them to give, W2, 1095 or other higher carbon options a try and see if they are not thrilled with the comparative results.

At Ashokan this weekend I implored Aldo to do the knife business a favor and stop offering 5160 in less than 1.5" widths since any knife in the 1" X1/4" size stock would do much better with another steel. For fine edges that will need to stand up against lots of slicing a fully martensitic structure with some fine residual carbide is the way to go.

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OK thanks Brion I'll bring it to a grey and call it good. How do you keep it from running into the blade on such a small knife. I was thinking I would put the blade in wet sand and draw the rest of it. I got the idea from one of the NESM videos I think.

I have two bars of copper 1"x3/8"x12" that I use as jaws in a vice. I use these for a variety of situations including this process. I clamp the blade in the jaws with the length of the blade running along the 12" length of the jaws and just the back 1/8 inch of the ricasso and the whole tang sticking out. That way I can heat the tang to whatever I want and the copper jaws keep the heat from affecting the blade.

I use a water bath. For large knives I have an adjustable plate in it to vary how far the blade goes into it. So stick the blade in the water and leave the tang above the water. The heat color line will stop about a 1/4" above the water line.

Brion

Thanks for all the advice guys. Kevin I will have to order me some W2 in the future. It is on my wish list along with some 1084 and some 15N20. I'm still doing testing on 5160 for future use when I go for my JS stamp. I already have the blade forged and ground right now it just needs to be heat treated...HMMM...maybe I'll just keep this one for myself.... Yes dear yea for testing dear. I promise I'll sell it down the road when the testing is done.