I use 5160 for about 99% of the blades that I produce. I occasionally like to make a blade with a hamon, but my concern is that if I don't temper it afterward then the spine as well as the edge will be too brittle, but if I do temper it then I'll loose the distinction of the temper line. Should I be using a water quench steel like Japanese blue steel or another type or maybe I'm not understanding it well. Thanks much for your help.
-Zeke Johnston-
Ezekiel,
I don't have the personal experience to answer your questions, but you may find your answers in the topic of the month thread located here.
Mike
Hello Zeke. I do temper my blades with hamon. You do not lose the hamon when tempering, however you may lose some of the very fine features, may. The jury is still out on that. So go ahead and temper your blades. I normally use W-2 or 1095 for hamons. I have also gotten good results with 1084, 1075, 1060, and 1050. 1084 will not have as much activity because of the higher manganese content. 5160 can show a hamon, but it usually is very plain and diffuse, not really a distinct line. It is not the best choice for hamon in a blade.
Personally I would recommend getting some 1075 from Aldo Bruno, the New Jersey Steel Baron and experiment with it. You can water quench 1075, BUT, you do run the risk of cracking the blade. I prefer a fast quench oil, such as Parks 50. You can try canola oil or mineral oil also.
I hope this helps and if you have any more questions or need more information ask away.
Brion
Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
ABS Mastersmith
Thanks for that link Brion. He has good prices. Or at least good to what I'm used to.
Cheyenne Walker
Apprentice Smith
Hello Cheyenne. Also Aldo is as bladesmith too and knows what types of steel we need. Plus he is just a real nice person and great customer service.
Brion
Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
ABS Mastersmith
I use 1095 almost exclusively, and I love a good hamon. I use clay very infrequently and I almost never water-quench, but I have been able to achieve some very interesting results. I agree with Brion (I think it was Brion) about 5160--you can get a hamon, but nothing very interesting in my experience.
I have been told that due to its composition, it is difficult to achieve a hamon on 1084 thicker than 3/16(ish) of an inch. I have observed that this is mostly true. As a result of this feature, if you do use 1084 for a hamon, you'll need to grind it very close to its finished shape. You should be doing that anyway, but you can get away with a lot of tweaking on a through-hardened blade. If you quench 1084 for a hamon and end up with a position you like, you have to bear in mind that that's where it is on the surface. As soon as you start grinding away at that surface, you're going to begin chasing that hamon down toward the edge.
So far as I can understand, this is an unavoidable feature of hamon hardening. It is the surface of the steel that is heated the most evenly and the surface that cools the quickest in the quench--the core cools slower, pretty much by definition. Thus, if you're picturing the hamon in cross section, the characteristics of the un-hardened spine will extend down into the hamon, which will "cup" it, in a soft V shape. (Anybody else have any other ideas on that? That was all guess-work.)
And yes, always temper your blades. I've tempered every hamon I've ever produced, and still come away with incredible figure and detail.
Hope that's useful.
Zack
Zack Jonas
Journeyman Smith
