Joseph the Bowie I just finished was bewtween HRC 58-59 5 test average

well lets see I have never heard of that person, so can't help you there.

5160 gets much harder than that, as hard from memory is 62-64 heck My 5160 swords are 54 RC or harder. 5160 is a good tough steel that has made many great knives.

I don't know if I would consider 5160 or O1 to be simple steels, both are alloyed and are somewhat finicky to get the most out of heat treatment. but that said there is no difference in a forge or ground blade if heat treated to the same specs. it is not possible to further reduce compress or refine the steel via plastic deformation past what has been done in the steel mill.

so why should you forge? because it uses less material can form shapes that are not possible or cost effective without forging. because forging is fun and grinding is sucky... at least that is why I forge....

MP

Great reply Matt!

A steel mill will reduce an ingot that measures in FEET across down to the ¼” stock that you work with, you will then tap a bevel on the side of that bar. Which process do you think had the most influence in reduction of inclusions and other structures? Our deformation doesn’t even register on the scale compared to what has already been done to that steel. But what we do offer more of is heat cycles. If there are segregations left over from the milling process the bladesmith has many heating opportunities to rearrange things; and that is, by the way, how that stuff moves, diffusion is driven by the heat not by a hammer.

However, my observations show that the simpler the steel the more of a difference we can make with our methods, tool steels like O-1 tend to be a little more homogenous and consistent, either due to alloying or due to the fact that the industry it is made for demands it. Compared to other industries automotive spring manufacturing really doesn’t have very exacting demands.

But most importantly the idea of homogenizing a piece of steel via proper thermal cycles is totally predicated on the assumption that those cycles are indeed the proper ones; there are many more opportunities for one to make things worse with heat than make them better. This is why you need a pretty good smith to make a decent forged blade. The more you learn about what is actually going on inside that steel, the better your chances of doing the right thing with heat.

Not all of the ABS is in love with 5160, I personally think it is a mediocre steel that is entirely too overrated, and far too often used for the wrong applications. Aldo (NJ Steel Baron) tells me all the time that he now offers 80CRV because he likes to see me smile when nice 5160 alternatives are offered. Most smiths will max 5160 hardness out at around 63 HRC, but I have squeezed a borderline 64 out of it on rare occasion. But remember that there are two sets of Rockwell numbers, as-quenched (fully hard) and post temper (the final working hardness) and you need both to make sense of your heat treatment. I mention this because some folks may refer to the post temper hardness as the maximum hardness that they desire in a blade and not the maximum hardness the steel can obtain.

Good balanced information Kevin. There is more to consider than maximum hardness.

|quoted:

A steel mill will reduce an ingot that measures in FEET across down to the ¼” stock that you work with, you will then tap a bevel on the side of that bar. Which process do you think had the most influence in reduction of inclusions and other structures? Our deformation doesn’t even register on the scale compared to what has already been done to that steel. But what we do offer more of is heat cycles. If there are segregations left over from the milling process the bladesmith has many heating opportunities to rearrange things; and that is, by the way, how that stuff moves, diffusion is driven by the heat not by a hammer.

However, my observations show that the simpler the steel the more of a difference we can make with our methods, tool steels like O-1 tend to be a little more homogenous and consistent, either due to alloying or due to the fact that the industry it is made for demands it. Compared to other industries automotive spring manufacturing really doesn’t have very exacting demands.

But most importantly the idea of homogenizing a piece of steel via proper thermal cycles is totally predicated on the assumption that those cycles are indeed the proper ones; there are many more opportunities for one to make things worse with heat than make them better. This is why you need a pretty good smith to make a decent forged blade. The more you learn about what is actually going on inside that steel, the better your chances of doing the right thing with heat.

Not all of the ABS is in love with 5160, I personally think it is a mediocre steel that is entirely too overrated, and far too often used for the wrong applications. Aldo (NJ Steel Baron) tells me all the time that he now offers 80CRV because he likes to see me smile when nice 5160 alternatives are offered. Most smiths will max 5160 hardness out at around 63 HRC, but I have squeezed a borderline 64 out of it on rare occasion. But remember that there are two sets of Rockwell numbers, as-quenched (fully hard) and post temper (the final working hardness) and you need both to make sense of your heat treatment. I mention this because some folks may refer to the post temper hardness as the maximum hardness that they desire in a blade and not the maximum hardness the steel can obtain.

Interesting Kevin , have you used 80CRV much and if so what application in your opinion is it best suited ?

thanks Rob

PS - was hoping to meet you at Clow's but I'm committed to the annual Fathers Day Fishing derby.......

I am not Kevin but I have been experimenting with the 80crv2.

I have found it to be very fine grained and very tough. Anything that you would use 5160 for 80crv2 will probably perform better in addition the very fine grain meens it can be used for thing I wouldn't ever use 5160 for like razors or kitchen knives. I have made a few kitchen knives from it and found it preforms almost as well as 52100. I have found a few issues with it , it can be prone to alloy banding, and it is oddly stiff under the hammer.

MP

|quoted:

I am not Kevin but I have been experimenting with the 80crv2.

I have found it to be very fine grained and very tough. Anything that you would use 5160 for 80crv2 will probably perform better in addition the very fine grain meens it can be used for thing I wouldn't ever use 5160 for like razors or kitchen knives. I have made a few kitchen knives from it and found it preforms almost as well as 52100. I have found a few issues with it , it can be prone to alloy banding, and it is oddly stiff under the hammer.

MP

Thanks Matt......

So sorry for the late reply. Everything has gone wrong in the last month.

Thank you all so much for information... once again, it is of a great help to me. Thanks to all!! I will apply all told to me in my blades.