Hi Chris!

Welcome! You're right, this is a great resource <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//cool.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> I think you are correct in thinking you should try the 1084. It is a "known" steel, which will eliminate the "unknowns" and leave you with only your heat treating processes to deal with. In knife making there are sooo many variables, it will cost you less in the long run to use a known steel and shorten your learning curve as well. Anytime I tried using an unknown steel, I always had strange things happen, but there may be some other factors involved as well. I have some questions about your process that may help shed some light on the issue. First of all, am I correct in thinking that you are referring to the tempering of the blade after the hardening (quench) process (ie.-Forge, Normalize<3>, Anneal<3>, Rough Grind, Normalize<3>, Harden/Quench, Temper, Final Grind, Polish)? If so,how well did you clean-up the blade before tempering? (Any variation could cause a variation in the tempering colors). How many times did you normalize the blade? How many times did you anneal the blade? How did you determine critical for the normalize & anneal stages? I would ask a Master Smith to chime in here, because they will have much better answers & suggestions. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//blink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

Hi Ed

Thanks for the quick response, after reading it I realized to start with that I left out a couple of the heat treating phases so that may have something to do with it not to mention the mystery metal of the file as well. I have been using a magnet and color chart with controlled lighting to figure my temperatures but I just got my thermal meter today so I will be using that in the future. I think I am going to take your advice and just move into working with the 1084 and leave the files behind. I have also printed out the Blade Forging Tutorial by Master Jim Saviano from the forum and will use that as a step by step to make sure I don’t forget any critical steps. Like I said, I am really new to this and I think in my excitement I am rushing a bit and forgetting some critical steps, time to slow down and get the basics down, I will probably have much better results.

The oxidation colors don't mean a whole lot. Old time blacksmiths would use them as a guide when tempering, and it works alright but many things can effect the color besides temperature. How it is polished, is it greasy, etc... So no don't worry about it.

I would however recommend doing some research on heat treating. Personally I would buy new steel, the 1084 is a good place to start, and research it's heat treat specs. After that you can test and tweek till you are getting the results you want.

Check out new Jersey Steel Baron, Aldo is a great guy to deal with.

Hi Justin

Thanks, that's good to know, I plan to do my heat treating by the numbers/temperature, not colors moving forward as that seems much more accurate. I actually did exactly as you say, purchased 1084 from Jersey Steel Baron and am working with that now.

Hello Chris. As Justin says, the colors do not mean much as any oil or other substance on the blade can cause different colors. The step of putting them in an oven at 450 for an hour would be tempering, it will not anneal them. The 1084 would be a really good start. You know what it is and the heat treating procedure. I usually do my forging with reducing heats, a lower heat as I do finish forging. I will then normalize three times. The first slightly above critical say 1550 and cool to black in air, then at critical, say 1485 and cool in air, then just below critical and cool in air or into vermiculite for a slow cool. This will anneal the blade. I then do the rough grinding and take the blade to 120 grit. I make sure the grinds are even, edge centered, plunges pretty even, and no sharp corners where the tang meets ricasso. Then I heat treat. Bring the 1084 blade up to 1485, making sure it is thoroughly heated. An heat treating oven will allow you to hold this temp and soak the blade for five minutes at this temp. No oven?bring the blade to non magnetic and hold for another minute or so. Caveman engineering? yes, but it will produce a serviceable blade. You will then quench in 120 degree canola oil. During this step you can straighten the blade. After the quench and 45 seconds or so in the oil you can pull the blade out and straighten if needed, then back into the oil until cool. Then I clean the blade with a 120 grit belt and into the pre-heated tempering oven at 400 for two hours. I will do a second cycle at 400 for another two hours. Then I will test the edge and see if I need to up the tempering temp to 425. I quench my 1084 in parks 50 and find 425 works better as a temp. Work with the 1084 and see what works. In the long run it is better to work with one or two steels and get the heat treat down for them, then you can branch out to other steels. Besides 1084 is cheap and an excellent steel.

Good luck.

Brion

Hi Brion, this was exactly what I was looking for, kind of a cliff notes on the over all process. I've been reading, watching videos, etc. so much on making knives I feel like I have been loosing the trees in the forest. One thing I would like to ask a little more detail on is about how you say you do your forging with reducing heats. By this do you mean that when you start with the initial shaping of the blade you heat it to high heat(yellow to cherry red?) to move more metal quickly but then once you have your over all shape you only heat to a low heat (dull red?) to do the finish work and major straightening? I have been doing all my forging at high heat ,yellow to cherry then back in the forge but I can see how a lower heat during the finishing work would make the fine tuning of the shape easier to achieve as the metal wouldn’t be as readily malleable. BTW, I am all about Caveman engineering, without that we wouldn't have tools let alone be forging blades from steel!

You are welcome Chris. The reducing heat while forging is basically designed to limit stress and grain growth in the steel. Start at 1800 to 1900 for heavy forging, then drop down towards 1500 to 1600 for final work such as straightening . Less time at high heat, means less grain growth.

Brion