Ed, What kind of problems did you have with the cactus juice? Did you find a resin that polishes up nicer? Were you trying to do huge batches?

I had a number of problems with cactus juice.... I had hunters returned because when blood came into contact with the handles that I stabilized with cactus juice, it turned the wood(s) a "milky" color, and it remained that way... I had to tear off/replace handles. There were also random curing issues with it....sometimes it would cure, and sometimes it wouldn't.....or worse, it would be cured on the exterior, but not cure at the "core" of the materials.

Basically it was hit-n-miss as to whether any given material I used it on would come out usable. I also had a number of complaints from customers who said that in certain situations, "There is sap, or "goo", or something leeching out of my knife handle". Again, I ended up replacing those knife handles for customers with professionally stabilized stuff, and solved the problem(s).

It wasn't just a matter how poorly/randomly things stabilized in cactus juice finished/polished (although that was a contributing factor), it was the overall performance of the product.....it just wasn't/isn't what it's portrayed to be....and the makers/sellers of it were of zero help with the issues. I suppose it's all in what a person expects. I was using materials that had been stabilized by WSSI as a comparison, and frankly there was simply no comparison. Once I was able to track down the chemical that the "professionals" use, and obtain it, I was getting what I considered great results, but when you consider the cost of that chemical (the stuff that runs nearly $900) versus the cost of sending material out for stabilizing, I was on the loosing end doing it myself. For me it all came down to a business decision, and the quality of the product.

It was a fun ride, learning how to do it myself, but from a business standpoint it just doesn't make sense economically to do it myself..... the cost difference is just way too lopsided.

Over the time period that I was doing my own stabilizing, I would run batches as small as 2-4 blocks, and sometimes as big as 25-30 blocks.

These days, the only stabilized materials I use are those that I feel REQUIRE stabilizing to make them usable as knife handle material. And those get sent to K&G. Stabilizing has it's place, but it's certainly not the "end all" thing that some folks believe, whether it's done in your own shop, or by the professionals.

I like using Ironwood, Blackwood and Maple. Haven't tried using Koa and Gidgee yet, but I would like to. A couple years ago, I bought some Ironwood burl material. It looked awesome in the big blocks that I purchased. But, I have found that it doesn't work very well for knife handles. The wood pattern is too large to display well on a small surface.

I've bought quite a bit of wood from Paxton Lumber company, in Kansas City. They have exotic wood in board stock. A lot of this material was sawn as construction lumber, so it is not sawn for the purpose of displaying the wood's grain. But if you dig around in the bin, you can find boards that are sawn with the correct grain orientation and/or ones that can be re-sawn in your shop for knife handle material.

I have only sent wood handle material to be stabilized once. I sent it to WSSI. It was a bad experience. I'll leave it at that......

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I have only sent wood handle material to be stabilized once. I sent it to WSSI. It was a bad experience. I'll leave it at that......

I think that most have gone to using K & G. (I know that I have.)

Gary

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I like using Ironwood, Blackwood and Maple.

Steve--Any problems with the maple "moving" on you. It's a very unstable wood. That's why I've avoided it (along with the fact that it needed to be dyed dark).

Gary

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Steve--Any problems with the maple "moving" on you. It's a very unstable wood. That's why I've avoided it (along with the fact that it needed to be dyed dark).

Gary

Non-stabilized Maple has moved on me before. In the guitar world, it's actually one of the more stable materials to build a guitar neck out of, especially compared to mahogany. But when we're talking about knife handles, I've had some move enough after a couple months use to be obtrusive and ugly.

Not all Maple is created equal. Fiddleback, or Rock maple some call it, is usually very stable and is the preferred maple for musical instruments. Curly, spalted, quilted, or bird's eye maples contain lots of figure because they have either a genetic mutation that affects the grain or have been infected with a virus or fungus that also affects the grain. The same thing that causes the grain enhancement also destabilizes the wood. When using these types of maple, you might seriously consider professional stabilization.

My favorite is black walnut, wet sanded with tung oil. I do my best with the finishing, but I know that it will eventually move on me. Even still, I can't stop with the walnut. It just looks and feels so nice.

I'll echo what's been said here: Internet prices are ridiculous. I've bought a few "premium" pieces online, and most of them were straight-grained and quite boring. The "exhibition" pieces are going for $30-$40 easy. I just got some REALLY beautiful stuff at the Fall Hammer-in for $5-$10 from a super nice fellow. So, the lesson here is, don't buy from those internet pirates. Buy from your buddies. I'm glad we can help each other out.

I have bought about 50 kinds of different wood at reasonable prices. A lot of this is drying as it had high moisture when I bought it. This helps to hold down the cost. I hang out on a forum for woodworkers and there is a lot of wood that is either sold or traded between members. I use a lot of African Blackwood, Ironwood, Black Ash Burl (S), Big Leaf Maple Burl (S), Box Elder Burl (S), Spalted Water Oak Burl (S), Curly Maple (S) and some Australian Burls. I also use K&G for stabilizing (S) and have no complaints with the stabilization or getting my wood back in the lots I sent them. I am not really happy with the wood I have dyed as the colors are not as good as I have seen from those who do there own stabilization. My reds are pink and my blues are more purple. I have had good luck with Green and Browns.

I will use true oil on some of the stabilized wood. It helps close wood with big pores and puts a nice finish on it. I use to use mosaic pins and now stay away from them. Like Ed, I have seen some stabilized woods move enough where the mosaic pins have sharp edges. I will save mosaic pins for African Blackwood, Ironwood and Marcarta.

Steve--Any problems with the maple "moving" on you. It's a very unstable wood.

I guess I've never thought of maple as being unstable. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Maple has long been one of the favorite woods for gunstocks. You don't want unstable wood used for a gunstock. I think the important thing about using maple, as well as many other woods, is to completely seal it during finishing.

I've had some maple stabilized, but I didn't like the color that it came out as. I've used all of the "usual" stains and leather dyes on maple. The best color is from using aqua fortis. Aqua fortis is the traditional method for coloring maple gun stocks. Aqua fortis is nitric acid, often with some iron filings dissolved in it. You wet the wood with aqua fortis, then heat the wood to dry it. I use an electric heat gun. It will turn the wood very dark. Then, you use steel wool to rub the color back to where you want it. The trouble with using aqua fortis on knives, is that it is just about impossible to use on an assembled knife. It will immediately rust steel fittings. Only works well on a knife that you can finish the handle and install it after finishing.

I've been using Lin-Speed for wood handles that need a finishing treatment. Lin-Speed is linseed oil, but is highly refined. It doesn't have the small particulate matter in it that slows drying. Lin-Speed dries in 3 to 6 hours. You can easily get at least a couple coats of Lin-speed applied per day.

To All, Thank you for all the great information on this subject, as a novice I can not tell you enough how much these types of threads help me. Made a lot of notes for my note book.

So glade I found and joined this Forum.

Has anyone had experience with verawood it's a lot like lignum vitae. I am using it for full tang knives

I've been using cactus juice for stabilizing for the last year, I have not had any of the problems Ed mentioned. Nor has anyone else I have spoken with when researching the set up.. I have also found the manufacturer to be extremely responsive to questions and that referring to the fyi page answers most questions regardless.

I did find I needed to figure out a good system for the most consistent results.

The system we use is pretty simple

1 do not run the system if it is over 70 deg in the shop.(just about wrecked a pump doing that,,)

2 dry the wood, we use a scientific oven for at least a week at 220 deg.

3 run wood under vacuum (at least 29-30 bars) until ALL bubbling stops.

4 soak in cactus juice for longer that it took under vacuum for the bubbling to stop.(this can be shortened by placing under pressure)

5 bake it off at 220 for at least two hours. (longer is better but you must make sure ALL resin is set even in the core , once baked it will not set if it inst completely set the first time)

I have had a single problem as long as I followed this system.

I stabilized all the wood i used in my JS and didn't even need to use any oil on them.

MP

There seems to be some confusion here about Maple.

The genus Acer (Maple) has well over 100 distinct species, many of which are quite varied in terms of their physical characteristics.

The tree that gives us maple syrup - Acer Saccharum, also known as "Sugar Maple" or "Rock Maple" - produces a VERY hard and stable wood which makes superb knife handles even without stabilization. Western Big Leaf Maple (Acer Macrophyllum), however, is a completely different type of wood, and much softer than its Northeastern cousin. Big Leaf Maple can produce some nice figure, but if a wood dealer is selling you "curly maple" you still need to ask what species of maple it comes from. The words "curly" or "birdseye" describe only the grain, not the actual species.

Another important variable which applies not only to maple but many types of wood, is how and where the tree is grown. Sugar maples growing in mature stands in the cold northern regions of the U.S. and Canada produce a much denser wood than those grown in faster-growing wood-lots down in more temperate southern climates. In fact, the difference in wood density resulting from growth rates can be as much as 25% in some species.

The point of all this is that a dense, slow-grown block of northern sugar maple can be one of the best natural handle material choices available to a knifemaker, but a fast-grown piece of big leaf maple won't even come close. Choose your wood wisely.

I've typically picked my wood in person. That being said, I've also ordered some from John Doyle. I know John and I know he's a wood snob and he treats me right with sending really good quality stuff. Plus, he takes photos of both sides of the blocks and you get whichever one(s) you asked for, not another block "with similar dimensions and figure". For any of you who don't have a local place that you can pick out wood, try looking up Gilmer Woods in Portland. I stopped into there on a trip and they have a LOT of incredible wood. If you can't buy locally, they take individual pictures of the wood they sell on their site and you pick the piece you want and get that actual piece. It's not ideal for wanting to put your hands on whatever you want to use, but when that's not possible, at least you know you're getting the piece you see in the photo.

As far as what I've used and like, African Blackwood is always nice, desert ironwood is also good, but I realized it doesn't finish the same way as other woods... I'd previously used some woods that did well with wet sanding with Danish oil to help fill in any pores. I tried that with desert ironwood the first time I used it and it just looked "muddy". A friend set me straight-I sanded it back, then went up in grit and buffed with pink no scratch and life was good. I just finished a knife using some stabilized buckeye burl and it was the first stabilized wood I've finished out. It was pretty great-sand up to a nice grit and buff, that was it. I've used some flame maple that I dyed with leather dye and put some finish coats of Tru-oil that worked well. I don't know the species of Maple, but went with the old fingernail test. I do that with any figured wood that I like but might not be sure what exactly it is. I got some Teak oil and plan to give that a try on future handles.

Jeremy