I've had a hidden tang hunter in the works for a little while now. It's my best effort to date and I ended up etching my name on it-first one ever. I got to working on the 416 guard and tried to go slow with it, as I tend to have struggles with these. I managed to get the webbing removed and went to filing to open the hole up for the tang-slowly. I'd stop and slide the tang in, mark how far I'd gone on the tang and take note of where I was catching. Then back to filing some more.
I got the top and bottom portions pretty great-just a bit shy of the shoulders for a press fit. I thought I was doing pretty well, except for the side to side fit.... The tang wasn't very tapered on the sides and somehow, I had a heck of a time removing material from top and bottom without taking small amounts off either side with the file, too. BUT-thankfully, I've seen a few great makers show a trick for this problem. I took the guard to my anvil with a hammer and punch. I hammered the punch along the edges of the face for the slot and it mushroomed/pushed material in on both sides. Now it was tighter than it needed to be. I put the guard on my magnet so I could hold onto it and started grinding at the face of it to get out the divots the punch left. That's when I realized I had hammered too hard....and left one particularly deep divot right in one of the corners... But, I figured if I just kept grinding carefully, maybe it'd get past it and be ok.
Weird, it wasn't ok. It left a little pin hole in the corner, but I decided to see how the guard fit otherwise. I filed the edges away and got it close for a press fit. That hole was definitely going to make the fit unacceptable. I started pushing the last little bit and turned everything sideways to look at it. That's when I realized how incredibly bad I'd messed up. While grinding the face, I turned it different directions and paid attention not to make contact on one edge to roll it really badly. Apparently, what I didn't pay enough attention to was the pressure I was putting on the little hunk of steel after it was in contact with the belt. The top of the guard was significantly thinner than the bottom. I now have a nice, wedge shaped, poorly fitting guard.......
Note to self:
-Make a more significant taper in both directions on the tang
-Be more careful or use a safe edge file so I don't end up making the slot too wide
-When using the punch trick to close the slot up a bit, don't use such a big hammer...
-Look at the guard on all axis' when grinding the face
Rant over, thanks for "listening"..... The more I try these, the more I understand why there are books and classes dealing with proper guard fit up.
Jeremy
Jeremy Lindley, Apprentice Smith
Jeremy, I have had the same problems. The way I now go about slotting a guard is with a mill, but still make the slot undersize and have to file to fit. I took a file and ground safe sides on it so it would not cut the sides of my slot while I made it longer, and also have one that has the edges sanded off so it will not make my slot longer when working the sides of the slot. This has helped me, I hope it helps you. Landon
I have two suggestions:
1. Make the tang shorter from top to bottom than the ricasso. Over cut the top and bottom edges of the slot a little. This excess space gets hidden behind the ricasso shoulders when the tang is narrower top to bottom than the ricasso is. This saves you all the headache of worrying about safe edge files not cutting into the guard where you don't want them.
2. When I file my guards out to fit, I cut from the back (handle side) of the guard and slope the file so that I over-cut the back of the slot wider than the front. This serves two purposes: you can clearly see where the file is cutting at the front edge and it provides a thin section to cut/press through when fitting the guard.
When I mill out the slot (now that I have a mill this is always), I will over cut a shallow section out of the back of the guard that is slightly wider than the front of the slot (only go halfway through the guard). The front of the slot is milled about .004 narrower than the ricasso. Then I affix Uncle Al's file guard across the tang about the same distance from the shoulders that my guard and spacers take up, take the tang to the 9 inch disk and cut two extra shoulders in the tang about .004 deep. Then when I press the guard on, the tang shoulders cut through the thin section at the front of the guard and leave nice, square corners for when I need to take the guard off and put it back on again. The fit along the sides is also very tight. You can use the tang-shoulder technique in combination with filing the slot as well.
Joshua States
www.dosgatosforge.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg
https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71
Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.â€
Thank you for the suggestions, I really appreciate them. I also relieve more material on the handle side of the slot so I end up filing at an angle. It's definitely easier trying to get the sides to the correct thickness when the part contacting the tang is only a fraction of the actual 3/8" bar thickness. Hopefully, the next one will turn out much better... <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.
Jeremy
Jeremy Lindley, Apprentice Smith
I've had decent success using a small ball peen hammer instead of the punch as you described. Light hits, check the fit a few times as you go. I also don't grind the face of the guard back flat until the fit is tight. After you clean the face, you usually have to take a little off the top and bottom corners, but you can leave the sides alone.
Ahhh, good info Jason. Hadn't thought about waiting to grind the face until after the fit is filed in. Good advice-thanks.
Jeremy
Jeremy Lindley, Apprentice Smith
Jeremy,
A tip shared at the Fall Piney Woods Hammer-In: use your file guard to keep the slot square and even. The MS that shared this tip said he can drill and file the slot faster than setting up his milling machine. I used it on my last guard, I drilled the holes, removed the webbing with a cylinder burr on the drill press and then filed after putting the file guard on. After the press fit all I had to do was smooth it on the surface plate, and epoxy it on. No gaps!
Bob
File guide... geez, why didn't I think of that? Great idea!
Jeremy;
Before I got a mill I used a jewelers saw to cut my slot and then true with a file. For me this is faster and more precise than the "connect the dot approach".
Lots of different ways work. Cleaning the face is the last thing I do before final assembly.
Mike
Mike Williams
Master Smith
Thank you all very much for the helpful advice. I very well may try the file guide trick on the next attempt and will definitely wait to clean the face up until the end. Who knows, maybe I'll get one of these to work out <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
Jeremy
Jeremy Lindley, Apprentice Smith
Jason
A room full of folks, including myself, had the same reaction. Like duh 🙂
Sometimes I think we make things to hard thinking we have to have all the toys to make a knife.
Bob
I take the top surface of the guard to the finished grit, but other than that I don't try shaping the guard until it is fit. That way if the slot comes out a little crooked or not quite right you have extra metal to work with. Same with the thickness. My drill press just wont square so I usually have a little tweaking as far as truing everything up. The extra metal makes this easy.
