What is the true purpose of tapering a full tang?

I know that most times it has to do with balance of the entire knife, especially with decent distal taper on the blade, but does it have anything to do with looks?

I think you answered your own question.

Balance and symmetry are of course major factors. "Looks"? You bet! To the experienced knife user/knife buyer, it not only looks good, but also to many, shows a level of "professionalism" in the maker's capabilities.

I'm gona quote something that Wayne Goddard, MS told me YEARS ago, that still sticks with me in every knife I build.....

"A custom knife must...

1. Look Good

2. Feel Good

3. Work Good"

Sounds simple right? The first one (Look Good) is.....the second (Feel Good) takes some time/experience to understand, and the third attribute (Work Good) must come from inside YOU (It's not outwardly obvious to the average person)..... and is a test of your integrity with each knife you produce. In this era of "Forged in Fire" where everyone who's seen that show is a "Forging expert", there is a flood of sub-standard knife shaped objects out there. In general, most who have jumped on the knifemaking bandwagon as of late concentrate on #1...... have little idea of #2, and simply ignore, or have no idea of #3.

In the end, it's up to each individual. YOU are the only one who can decide what's "best" for the knives you produce. That being said, I would hope that any ABS member would seek constant improvement in every attribute of the knives they produce....from the newest member, to the most seasoned Master. Bladesmithing/Knifemaking is NOT about a destination, it's about the journey..... constant learning, and constantly seeking improvement.

Chad, I think your estimation of the subject is pretty well on the money. You're talking about full tang of course. A smaller knife has a shorter blade and the tapered tang will help balance it. The longer chopper might need the weight of the material left alone to assist in balance. So it's a matter of function.

There is one other consideration. When I see a knife that has a tapered tang, assuming it's appropriate for that knife, I see that the maker cares. The maker cares and it's apparent by the efforts he went to instill balance to the knife.

That said, "Form Follows Function". Rare is the case where improving function doesn't improve form. I think the tapered tang looks better and would like to think it's because I have developed an attraction based on the study of it's function. Does that make sense?

Ed and Lin,

Gentleman, I appreciate your input on this. I have read through tons of threads here in the forums, and the guidance and advice given by both of you has been fantastic and invaluable for quite a few folks including me.

I agree that in the "Forged In Fire" era that there are more self proclaimed forging experts. I was a contestant and now I've had to answer a pile of questions, and correct a bigger pile of statements of people in relation to forging a blade. They have a tendency to think that a good, quality knife can be made in 4 hours. I spend a lot of time explaining that watching us do 3+ days of work in 3 hours is not even close to accurate. And, explaining that I don't pick a softball sized 52100 ball bearing, or a pile of chain saw chains on a regular basis to make knives out of. I was inundated with "gifts" of chainsaw chains by the bucket full...ahh....anyway.

I also agree that form follows function, but sometimes my eye just doesn't see it. I like to own, and make well made "pretty" knives, but I have a tendency toward the basic, utility type. I suppose I'm more of a nuts and bolts kind of guy. The artistic eye is something I struggle with occasionally. It kind of reminds me of when I was learning to stick and Mig weld...the ole fella said that I made Gorilla welds. When asked what that meant, I was told "They are ugly as a mud fence, but strong as can be"..

Again, I appreciate your thoughts and I look forward to seeing more wisdom in the future.

Chad

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I think you answered your own question.

Balance and symmetry are of course major factors. "Looks"? You bet! To the experienced knife user/knife buyer, it not only looks good, but also to many, shows a level of "professionalism" in the maker's capabilities.

I'm gona quote something that Wayne Goddard, MS told me YEARS ago, that still sticks with me in every knife I build.....

"A custom knife must...

1. Look Good

2. Feel Good

3. Work Good"

Sounds simple right? The first one (Look Good) is.....the second (Feel Good) takes some time/experience to understand, and the third attribute (Work Good) must come from inside YOU (It's not outwardly obvious to the average person)..... and is a test of your integrity with each knife you produce. In this era of "Forged in Fire" where everyone who's seen that show is a "Forging expert", there is a flood of sub-standard knife shaped objects out there. In general, most who have jumped on the knifemaking bandwagon as of late concentrate on #1...... have little idea of #2, and simply ignore, or have no idea of #3.

In the end, it's up to each individual. YOU are the only one who can decide what's "best" for the knives you produce. That being said, I would hope that any ABS member would seek constant improvement in every attribute of the knives they produce....from the newest member, to the most seasoned Master. Bladesmithing/Knifemaking is NOT about a destination, it's about the journey..... constant learning, and constantly seeking improvement.

Thank you Ed! I started out in 2010 before Forged in Fire and I am glad I did because it forced me to really dig in.

As a hobbyist I have focused on developing my skills with each blade and because of that I have not produced very many.

There are quite a few groups on Facebook where the new makers try to sell there work and to be honest they are garbage. They immediately start a company and start flooding the market with subpar blades and I fear that people will think that these are custom made knives when they are just guys learning the ropes.

Appreciate you voicing that! And all the effort you make in teaching the craft.

|quoted:

Thank you Ed! I started out in 2010 before Forged in Fire and I am glad I did because it forced me to really dig in.

As a hobbyist I have focused on developing my skills with each blade and because of that I have not produced very many.

There are quite a few groups on Facebook where the new makers try to sell there work and to be honest they are garbage. They immediately start a company and start flooding the market with subpar blades and I fear that people will think that these are custom made knives when they are just guys learning the ropes.

Appreciate you voicing that! And all the effort you make in teaching the craft.

Geoff,

While I agree with Ed, and you as well, I don't think that Forged in Fire has hurt anyone as a bladesmith. Caused some headaches, yep, caused us to answer more questions, you betcha. And while I also agree that there are a ton of garbage blades out there for sale, that doesn't mean that it would hurt my sales, or anyone else that makes quality knives.

That person that is willing to buy the garbage isn't our target market. They are probably the same folks that are willing to buy the cheap pocket folders that are made from the crappiest steel to be found. The ones that you almost can't get an edge on, nor will they even think of holding that edge.

Anybody that thinks they know how to evaluate a good knife to buy, will buy exactly what they know. If they know quality, then they will buy quality. If they know diddly, then they will buy diddly..

Competing on Forged in Fire was alot of fun. It was more about the problem solving skills that smiths have vs. the actual forging of a blade. There have been some ridiculous challenges on that show over the years. I don't know many smiths (none actually) that harvest steel from road signs and bicycles to make a knife. It's all about how you can take that ridiculousness and pull something out of a hat that "resembles" a blade.

Now, I know (and I think it's what Ed was talking about) that the uneducated (bladesmithing wise) listen to the comments and critiques of the judges and think that after a few episodes of that they can look at a knife and pick out the good and bad aspects. Those are the people that I feel we have a duty to educate and guide them in the right direction. After all, that's the mission statement of the ABS...to educate.

As far as the people learning the ropes and selling some garbage blades...let them. They will only get what someone wants to pay. If that blade is terrible, but the buyer is absolutely in love with it, then what's the harm? I've had some knives that I've made that I really didn't like. Either the design felt off, or it had a flaw somewhere. They ended up sitting on the bench, or piled in the tool box. I have then had people almost beg to buy one of those knives. Even after pointing out the flaws, they just had to have them. Sometimes, beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Anyway, I think that as long as we continue to learn and grow then everyone can always get better if we share that knowledge.

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Geoff,

While I agree with Ed, and you as well, I don't think that Forged in Fire has hurt anyone as a bladesmith. Caused some headaches, yep, caused us to answer more questions, you betcha. And while I also agree that there are a ton of garbage blades out there for sale, that doesn't mean that it would hurt my sales, or anyone else that makes quality knives.

That person that is willing to buy the garbage isn't our target market. They are probably the same folks that are willing to buy the cheap pocket folders that are made from the crappiest steel to be found. The ones that you almost can't get an edge on, nor will they even think of holding that edge.

Anybody that thinks they know how to evaluate a good knife to buy, will buy exactly what they know. If they know quality, then they will buy quality. If they know diddly, then they will buy diddly..

Competing on Forged in Fire was alot of fun. It was more about the problem solving skills that smiths have vs. the actual forging of a blade. There have been some ridiculous challenges on that show over the years. I don't know many smiths (none actually) that harvest steel from road signs and bicycles to make a knife. It's all about how you can take that ridiculousness and pull something out of a hat that "resembles" a blade.

Now, I know (and I think it's what Ed was talking about) that the uneducated (bladesmithing wise) listen to the comments and critiques of the judges and think that after a few episodes of that they can look at a knife and pick out the good and bad aspects. Those are the people that I feel we have a duty to educate and guide them in the right direction. After all, that's the mission statement of the ABS...to educate.

As far as the people learning the ropes and selling some garbage blades...let them. They will only get what someone wants to pay. If that blade is terrible, but the buyer is absolutely in love with it, then what's the harm? I've had some knives that I've made that I really didn't like. Either the design felt off, or it had a flaw somewhere. They ended up sitting on the bench, or piled in the tool box. I have then had people almost beg to buy one of those knives. Even after pointing out the flaws, they just had to have them. Sometimes, beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Anyway, I think that as long as we continue to learn and grow then everyone can always get better if we share that knowledge.

Hey I am actually a fan of the show , got an email from them a year ago and felt like I was not at a level to win so i declined.

I do think it has helped expose the art form but it as you have stated gives the viewer a ridiculous idea of what we do.

The real problem for me is not with forged in fire but with what it seems to have spawned which is more a product of our culture than anything. It really boils down to the idea of craftsmanship and the fast food culture that we live in. So many new smiths seem to not understand the idea of paying your dues so to speak.i totally understand the perspective I hate some aspects of making a quality piece but the little craftsman inside me always speaks up and says you can do more.

I agree 100% with what you said and I brought this up on a Facebook group and the torrent of comments actually got me banned for a day but it is something that is truly needed in our time. I happy that it's being discussed!

I apologize for hijacking your post and appreciate your input.

|quoted:

Hey I am actually a fan of the show , got an email from them a year ago and felt like I was not at a level to win so i declined.

I do think it has helped expose the art form but it as you have stated gives the viewer a ridiculous idea of what we do.

The real problem for me is not with forged in fire but with what it seems to have spawned which is more a product of our culture than anything. It really boils down to the idea of craftsmanship and the fast food culture that we live in. So many new smiths seem to not understand the idea of paying your dues so to speak.i totally understand the perspective I hate some aspects of making a quality piece but the little craftsman inside me always speaks up and says you can do more.

I agree 100% with what you said and I brought this up on a Facebook group and the torrent of comments actually got me banned for a day but it is something that is truly needed in our time. I happy that it's being discussed!

I apologize for hijacking your post and appreciate your input.

No apology necessary, I think that any thread is a conversation, and any conversation can change course at any time.

I see what you're saying about the fast food culture, and everyone wanting to be forging Mastersmith level knives in the first day. It does drive me batty.

Also, getting banned from Facebook earns some respect from me..LOL

|quoted:
As far as the people learning the ropes and selling some garbage blades...let them. They will only get what someone wants to pay. If that blade is terrible, but the buyer is absolutely in love with it, then what's the harm?

The harm comes when they've misrepresented their skills, knowledge, or the quality of their work, and the blade suffers a critical failure or is unable to perform up to expectations. At best, the customer will be disappointed in his purchase and get turned off from custom knives in general. At worst, he is put at risk of injury or harm.

Knifemakers have a responsibility to make a product that at the very least meets some minimum standards of quality and safety. A knife is not just something that's supposed to look cool; it needs to also be able to perform a few basic functions without potentially injuring a responsible user. This is why many of the things you can't see with the naked eye - namely the heat treatment - are so critically important.

Tapered tangs, on the other hand, can be seen with the naked eye, and demonstrate an attention to detail that informed buyers notice and appreciate. If the maker took the time to taper the tang and balance the knife properly, then he probably also did a decent job with the parts that you can't see. Like the heat treatment <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

By the way, on longer full-tang blades, some makers will add a rear bolster or pommel to improve balance, because a tapered tang by itself may in fact leave the blade a bit tip-heavy. Some of the old Rodgers and Wostenholm bowies from the civil war era incorporated just such a feature.

|quoted:

The harm comes when they've misrepresented their skills, knowledge, or the quality of their work, and the blade suffers a critical failure or is unable to perform up to expectations. At best, the customer will be disappointed in his purchase and get turned off from custom knives in general. At worst, he is put at risk of injury or harm.

Knifemakers have a responsibility to make a product that at the very least meets some minimum standards of quality and safety. A knife is not just something that's supposed to look cool; it needs to also be able to perform a few basic functions without potentially injuring a responsible user. This is why many of the things you can't see with the naked eye - namely the heat treatment - are so critically important.

Tapered tangs, on the other hand, can be seen with the naked eye, and demonstrate an attention to detail that informed buyers notice and appreciate. If the maker took the time to taper the tang and balance the knife properly, then he probably also did a decent job with the parts that you can't see. Like the heat treatment <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

By the way, on longer full-tang blades, some makers will add a rear bolster or pommel to improve balance, because a tapered tang by itself may in fact leave the blade a bit tip-heavy. Some of the old Rodgers and Wostenholm bowies from the civil war era incorporated just such a feature.

I agree that someone that is making, and selling their knives to the public would have a decent amount of responsibility to provide a quality product. However, I don't think that if a particular smith is putting out inferior work that it will completely affect those that only release their best quality product.

If that particular smith that doesn't sell quality knives ends up with problems due to heat treat/ construction, then that particular smith builds a reputation.

How many times have we all purchased tools that appeared to be relatively well constructed, only to have them fail. Sometimes failing spectacularly. That doesn't mean we won't ever buy another similar tool...we just won't buy them from that manufacturer..

I stand behind each and every one of my blades, if something happens to them, (even caused by user abuse) I will take it back and fix it if I can. If I can't, then I will either replace it or refund. I believe in my work and strive to build the reputation of a good bladesmith, and a fair and honest business person.

In any field, there will be frauds and fakes...the way to stand out is to let your work speak for itself.