Bobby Bailey,

Take this with the grain of salt of me being an apprentice. I know one of the Masters will do a better description, but here is my thoughts:

Great Question and One I asked myself when I got started. Here is the first answer I would say is true (Where) you are asking the question: The American Bladesmith Society has an answer which is where you asked the question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iIFwYAjDQk - Bill Moran

"American Bladesmith Society was formed primarily to encourage and promote activities involving the art and science of forging metal, particularly tools, weapons and art forms. The objectives of the educational programs of the ABS are to inform and educate knife makers and the public about the art, science, technology, history and culture relating to forged edged tools, weapons and artifacts and the proper care and use of these objects."

The answers you will receive on this site will be geared towards that mission and purpose, another great video is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28UyWZ-mLpw from MS Murray Carter. I think the description from a origin and science perspective is crucial about why we connect to the processes of the past, and how the mastery of the forging integrates a connection to the science of metallurgy in the future. Basically, forging correctly and working the metal exactly should have a positive effect on the performance of a blade. In addition if you master your forging technique to the "brute de forge" stage of 90% shaping then in theory you will cut down on the over-use of your machines and destroying belts, or other abrasive costs. 

All that being said, there isn't anything wrong with a stock removal knife, but it flat out isn't a forged knife. The entirety of phrases like "imbuing the soul" of the blade, or craftsmanship tends to lose out in just grinding a blank. I often ask myself; "why do I make blades?" Am I trying to compete with a CNC machine from china or India? Or am I doing this for something deeper. If you try and compete with a processing plant, then the merit behind your knives might not last the tests of time. If you do something that pours the best of yourself into something, than maybe it becomes something more than just a knife. - just my thoughts, maybe I am wrong.

It seems like a black and white type of question but is all shades of gray.  How much hammer work makes it forged?  When does the hammer work become a problem?

Does the blade need to be forged to profile to be called forged?  In carbon steel, it is not always evident, in Damascus it often is.  One can often tell if a blade was stock removed, from a pattern welded bar, if the pattern conforms to the profile, as it should on a forged blade.  Now it gets “sticky” in the judging room.  When I see a Turkish twist or mosaic dagger that has perfectly parallel pattern rows running right off the tip, with no distortion, well we sort of know not much hammer work went into that blade.  But does the steel itself (damascus) offer enough proof of forge work?  Taking it further, a very tight pattern that was pressed in, may or may not follow the profile, the steel was definitely forged, but saw very little hammering after the patterning dies; things are getting much grayer.

Due to loss of material and scale, distortion, decarb, and general hassle, it is actually sort of counterproductive to do much forging on a folder blade.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, I would not forge sword bevels to the same degree as a bowie in order to keep ahead of distortion issues over a three foot blade.

So, there are no simple answers.  Is making the Damascus enough to call the blade forged?  Is forging the profile, and grinding the bevels, forged?  If not, how much bevel forging is required, .100” edge thickness?  .070”?  or forged almost to sharp?  One seems not enough, while the other is going to give decarb concerns.

As the current man at the helm of the ABS, I would ask that if a smith is making stainless blades on a grinder that he not stamp them with our marks (i.e. JS or MS) as those stamps represent excellence in the forged blade.  But if one is stock removing carbon steel, I would ask why?  The most efficient method of shaping carbon steel is forging, why bother being a bladesmith if you are not taking advantage of that.  If you are just grinding them, you could have saved a ton of money on a lot of extra equipment and shop space.            

Lets be honest, those of us that are making a living doing this well need to make a living, I think out side of the testing room,  I say make what you can sell and profit from. How ever be honest with your customers about how you are producing the work that too can reflect poorly on the ABS if there is the impression of "cheating" the customer. 

For what is is worth I would like to offer a opinion, with out any sort of malice or insult intended. As I wrote last year in my column  I do think there needs to be a written standard on what constitutes a "forged" blade.  At least as far as it applies to the testing room. I believe and have argued in the past that not having one is doing a disservice to the members. 

I do forge my stainless knives,  and at first I was marking them with my JS, but several years ago I stopped doing so, after several people told me that could be frowned upon. So Kevin would it be appropriate for me to mark my forged stainless or forged to shape Damasteel blades with my JS?

MP

I make whatever I want to make. As anyone should.

That said, Kevin already gave my reply - if I do a stock removal knife I do not add my J.S.