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Thanks guys.

Kevin, the pictures are worth so much to help bring the issue into focus. A knife that has good design, fit, and finish was not made by accident. Thank you.

Lin, as I said, I got your back 100% on this. Every knife I now build is first drawn on paper with all the details listed, this is not just good preplanning, it also allows me to make fittings, or even the sheath from the drawing at any part of the process instead of having to work sequentially to insure the next part works with the previous. And when I am done the drawing is given a serial number matching the blade and is filed away for reference at any time in the future, thus if I find a particular design that really worked I can do it again without a problem. Much of this discipline was instilled in me from recreating medieval and ancient blades from original artifacts. In that situation I have all the excruciating measurements, weights etc... that have to be transferred from the drawing to the steel with the utmost accuracy; shave .009" too much off at one spot and you can start over because you are no longer true to the original. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//sad.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

This is one of the best and most helpful threads I have seen and read in a while. Very well explained and shown in the photos and graphics.

Thanks to you all.

Anthony Griggs

So today I had folder blades cooking in the oven and decided it would be a good time to do some more work on this blade. I don't know that I'm following Lin's advice exactly but, I feel like I'm at least hitting the main points and I am really starting to see how this can be helpful. The previous comments about where the plunge should lie also really help to solidify the logic behind this progression.

Today I sketched out where I wanted the plunge, choil and ricasso to end up. I deviated from Lin's advise here because I felt having my bevels much closer to finish ground before heat treating was more in the spirit of what I just learned at J.R.'s. So, I brought my plunges back to their final (or very close to) position. I then ground the bottom of the ricasso up to within 1/16" of final and left a good 1/8" plus on the back of the choil to be cleaned up later. This is at 320 grit off the disc sander. I also filed in my shoulders but, I didn't get a picture of that... maybe tomorrow.

Bob

Untitled by Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Bob, on Flickr

Thanks for updating this thread and showing your progress. The info here is super helpful.

Jeremy

Yes Bob. That's great! I want you to find where you are comfortable with the technique and go with it. It's going to be a fine looking blade. I anticipate that you will see this being somewhat more "forgiving" allowing you some material to work with. In this area, a few thousandths make a big difference. Good job and thanks for the photos.

Thank you Bob, keep the pictures coming please, they are very helpful.

I am really enjoying this thread.

Bob - thanks for taking time to photograph how you are using the advice you are getting.

All the pictures everyone has added are making it really clear and helpful.

I'm bringing this back up as I am learning some things. One of the things I've been working to understand is just how far can I pull the choil down. I recently came up with a Bowie pattern that I am pretty excited about and thought would present a fair amount of challenge for my skills. It is nearly 10" from tip to guard and has a 3/4" drop in the choil with the overall blade width being right at 2".

Print by Bob, on Flickr

My thinking was that I would forge this with a full thickness spine and only have distal taper in the clip. Not really planning to put a sparring bar on it but working in that direction. I chose a piece of .255" x 1-1/2" W2 thinking that I would be able to pull the choil down 1/2" if I did everything the best I possibly could. I'll get a photo of the forged blade up tomorrow but suffice to say, I could not pull the choil nearly that far. I may have pulled 5/16" if I was lucky. Edge thickness is a pretty consistent .060" and my bevels are pretty flat all the way to the spine.

Not being able to get the choil down as far as I want it seems to be a trend in my knives right now. So, what I'm getting out of this is that I need to start with either, thicker material or wider material to arrive at my final dimensions. Thicker stock would allow me to pull down more material into the choil but at the expense of having a thicker spine than I may want. Wider stock, say 1-3/4" would allow me to pull the choil/cutting edge to the final needed dimension but would require me to grind more to get the proper height on my ricasso (or perhaps try forging it up).

Am I thinking this correctly? Is someone going to tell me I should be able to pull that steel down a full 1/2"? Can using a hammer with crown in only one direction help control the direction that the metal moves and allow more to go into pulling the cutting edge down and less longitudinal stretch? Other thoughts?

Bob

Bob, I will answer one of your direct questions. By using the cross peen you can pull metal essentially one direction. However it would be difficult to pull 1/2 inch down with the size of material you started with. I still think this is a two part solution. Start with larger stock, either in thickness or width, and/or use the above grinding techniques.

There is one other which is seldom used except by some who are influenced by their blacksmithing experience. That is where you upset the material to thicken it where necessary. This can be done in steps or stages and move the material very much.

If you are interested in this, let me suggest this to get it started your way. Let's say you are starting with the same size stock you started with. .255 X 1-1/2 I believe it was. First of all instead of forging the blade tip first as we often do, forge the ricasso upward toward you target width keeping the spine straight. Use half on/half off hammer blows. This will thicken he ricasso area. Now heat (bright orange to white) the area where the ricasso and as far up as half of the blade into the bar and quickly pound the bar endwise on the anvil face. reapeat till it thickens noticeably or enough to store the material you need to move it down. By starting at the back of the blade you can fiddle with it till you get the material where you want without being tied to a blade length. Then cut the bar long enough to forge your blade holding it by the rough tang.

2015-12-26_11-01-27 by Bob, on Flickr

So, this blade shows very little resemblance to the pattern but, I learned several lessons from this so I think it is okay. I suppose a lot of this is part of the beginner learning curve. I haven't forged enough to know how much metal I need to get where I want to be. The upsetting technique (which sounds really cool) would be useful only if I know in advance that I will need to use it which, I need to get better at determining. I am pretty good at grinding and it would be easy for me to fall back on that as the fix for some of the hurdles I run into. I am trying to avoid that as I make forged knives as I feel I need to work in the spirit and tradition of the forged blade. I would like to try to forge this pattern again. I have some .310x1-1/2" on hand or I could order some 1-3/4" wide material in the .255" thickness (or .310" thick), which would be the best way to go? Lin, I thank you for taking the time to explain things and help me and others.

Bob

It would probably work better if you got the .255 X 1-3/4.