I was wondering if I could get some input on a knife that I'll be making for a spec op soldier. His wife is commissioning the knife as a gift for his deployment in mid Feb and states that he is interested in a "combat boot knife". Being a self taught apprentice smith, this makes me slightly nervous about creating a useful and durable knife that may actually be needed to protect a soldier's life. I usually forge 1095 and heat treat using my propane forge but I'm feeling that this knife may be better off if I farm out the knife to a professional heat treater. I'd like help with the following (or any other advise you may have) on:
1. What steel(s) would you suggest be best for this type of knife?
2. Is this a candidate for a professional heat treat? If not, how would I know for sure that I'm getting the most out of the steel?
3. Design suggestions? The internet is full of "combat boot knives" but I'm trying to wrap my head around what makes a combat boot knife a combat boot knife?
Thanks in advance.
Hello Darrell. Personally I would go with 5160. Easy to heat treat, very tough when heat treated correctly, easy to sharpen. Just do the standard thermal cycling, quench in canola oil or what you use for 1095, temper at 400 for two hours and repeat. You might draw the spine and tang with a torch. I am thinking about a five to six inch blade with a spearpoint bowie style, minimal guard, and micarta or g-10 handle.
Good work
Brion
Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
ABS Mastersmith
Darrell,
Just for thought. My nephew, Marines, just got back from Afghanistan. He said when they came back, customs checked them 3 times! They confiscated all non issued blades.
That being said I like Brion's idea!
Bob
Darrell,
Brion has given you some excellent advice. When your life might depend on the knife, toughness is a necessity.
I might add a sharpened clip to make it a little better for stabbing. Give it a handle contoured so that it won't slip out of his hand easily. Make it as indestructible as possible both in the blade & handle and he will be well pleased.
Gary
While my brother was serving in the Special Forces I had the opportunity to set down with him and a large group of his team members and this was their general consensus.
(1) overall length not to exceed 9.5".
(2) blade length was to be 4.75-5", .186" thick at spine and 7/8" from spine to cutting edge. Keep in mind the blade tip will encounter everything form heavy gear to metal and bones so the tip needs to be strong, not to be confused with thick. This is where good geometry comes in! I have nothing against a spear point blade but that was not their preference, all preferred a clip that ran 60-65% the length of the blade to aid in allowing the blade to slip between ribs.
(3) handle was to be contoured to afford a stable and comfortable handle.
(4) since it's principal use is the thrust it must have some form of guard the prevent the hand from slipping forward. The team members preferred some type of integral guard
(5) the handle should be a stable synthetic material in a neutral color.
(6) the sheath needs to be synthetic too. Service personal will encounter all sorts of environmental variation so rust is a major issue. It should be designed to be carried in a boot and affixed to other parts of their gear. Almost forgot to say include a hole near the tip for drainage.
All finishes should be subdued to reduce reflectivity, and make it easier for them to maintain. 5160 is a very good choice but I prefer L6. The high nickel content really helps with the rust issue! If you have not had much experience with L6 stay with 5160, it's a lot easier to work with.
Darrell,
I understand your lack of confidence. I encourage you to do your research, then forge several blades from your chosen steel, and test.
It is a great opportunity for you to gain the confidence you lack. One of the greatest feelings I get as a Bladesmith is in testing. You would take a step or two forward(maybe a leap) by shipping that knife with confidence, and just hoping the knife gets put to the test, instead of fearing that it will.
My vote is to do it all yourself, and don't let it leave the shop till you know it's ready. You can do it.Dan
Wow! Thank you for your responses and encouragement. I haven't had a blade fail yet but my knives have been used mostly in hunting service and kitchen knives. It's one thing to have a blade fail while skinning a deer and have the hunter come back with an angry email and another to have a blade fail and possibly cost someone their life. I will do the heat treating myself, but I will also take heed at the advice to do a few test blades as well.
I've found out that he wants a double-edged "Arkansas Toothpick" style boot knife. I will have to quiz him further as I see the blade geometry (on most) of that particular style to be a bit fragile for the rigors of modern combat unless I'm mistaken. @Stephen-thanks for the super specifics- I can definitely use that information! I do like working in 5160 so I am glad to hear of that being a good choice for steel. I am thinking Kydex sheath with eyelets, bead blasted blade, a "desert" or tan colored canvas Micarta handle. Here are some quick ideas that I mocked up on the computer......I usually draw the knives out w/pencil but found the pc a quick sketching tool. I've yet to pass them along to the client to see if I'm heading in the right direction.
Darrell
What software are you using to draw your knife projects?
Dan Cassidy
Journeyman Smith
Send an email to Dan
Darrell,
I like your designs especially the top one. All should be quite durable. Something that you will find interesting is Cashen's video about dagger design. It will show you a lot about the blade geometry.
Another handle option that you may want to consider is horse stall matt. It's both comfortable, durable and the non-reflective nature would fit a combat knife well. I've used it on competition knives more than once and like the "feel" of it.
Gary
|quoted:
Wow! Thank you for your responses and encouragement. I haven't had a blade fail yet but my knives have been used mostly in hunting service and kitchen knives. It's one thing to have a blade fail while skinning a deer and have the hunter come back with an angry email and another to have a blade fail and possibly cost someone their life. I will do the heat treating myself, but I will also take heed at the advice to do a few test blades as well.
I've found out that he wants a double-edged "Arkansas Toothpick" style boot knife. I will have to quiz him further as I see the blade geometry (on most) of that particular style to be a bit fragile for the rigors of modern combat unless I'm mistaken. @Stephen-thanks for the super specifics- I can definitely use that information! I do like working in 5160 so I am glad to hear of that being a good choice for steel. I am thinking Kydex sheath with eyelets, bead blasted blade, a "desert" or tan colored canvas Micarta handle. Here are some quick ideas that I mocked up on the computer......I usually draw the knives out w/pencil but found the pc a quick sketching tool. I've yet to pass them along to the client to see if I'm heading in the right direction.
Darrell,
I think your headed down the right path. Have you considered combining the blade from the bottom one with the guard and handle from the middle one? I would suggest you make a wood mockup of your design and see how it feels, don't be afraid to do some of the move it might encounter in use. Sometimes they won't function like you conceptually think!
