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Lineup Pins Question

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Posts: 21
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith (5yr)
Topic starter
 

Howdy ABS folks

I have used lineup pins on things like bolsters where the bolster can be drilled then used as a jig to make perfectly matching blind holes in the guard ahead of it and handle material behind it- but what about something like a one piece pommel or butt cap where you might have blind holes on both sides?

I would like to start doing this more often and I’m thinking my options are either making a jig (that could be reused) that is set up to repeat as a drill guide using a 10-32 center hole for a tang and a couple smaller holes for pins, or just a flat or paper template to make bigger holes that get epoxy bedded like how you’d bed a thru tang in a softer material.

Anyway, I figured it was worth throwing a post up to see how y’all do it since I’m new and it’s always better to stand on the shoulders of giants than to build a scaffold every time I figure out the best way for me to do a common process.

Thanks!

Kevin

 
Posted : 09/04/2021 9:56 am
Posts: 53
Trusted Member Apprentice Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Hi Kevin-

Good question. Sorry I can't help. I have tried several times to use a template to drill locator pin holes in handle and guard. Each time I improved my accuracy, to no avail. I've moved to bedding the tang with epoxy until I have learned more. I look forward to learning more from additional posters.

[email protected]

 
Posted : 21/04/2021 1:50 pm
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

I have a photo tutorial in my archives somewhere. I will look for it later and post it here.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 22/04/2021 8:01 am
Posts: 21
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith (5yr)
Topic starter
 

So I was trying to make a pommel for an elk handle and I didn’t want a nut. I considered peening the tang over or welding a female thread to the pommel but I wanted an even polished surface to etch a design and I wanted to match the irregular horn profile. I didn’t trust it to spin tight and still index perfectly.

 

I ended up plug welding a thick egg shaped plate to the inside of the pommel plate/cap so the pommel fits tightly and securely before epoxying. It should stand up to dropping or banging around no problem. 

But I still want to make a reusable drill jig to make lineup pins for takedown construction or even just for reliable final assembly after finishing all the parts. 

Josh I’d love to hear your method even a brief description without pics. I’m thinking 1/2” hardened plate with parallel holes for use as a drill jig, possibly with a center hole for visual alignment then a dab of superglue to temporarily hold the jig on my material. 

This post was modified 4 years ago by Kevin Cunningham
 
Posted : 22/04/2021 11:32 am
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

I cannot seem to find the photos of the process, but here is a verbal description

Butt cap indexing

The rough butt cap should be flat with parallel faces. The handle material should be fitted to the tang (bedded if desired). The but cap should also fit over the end of the tang.

I use an index card about .03 or .04 inches thick (vulcanized paper works well) and fit that to the tang between the butt cap and handle. I glue it to the handle material with spray adhesive. Remove the handle with index card in place. Drill two alignment holes through the card into the handle. You don't have to go too deep, 1/8" is plenty. Insert the pins and sand or file them flush with the surface of the index card. Remove the index card and clean any glue residue off the handle and card. Reattach the handle and card to the tang. Get a tight fit. Apply some glue (superglue works, a good spray adhesive will also work) and attach the butt cap. The pins are flush to the surface of the index card, so your butt cap should fit flush against it. Remove the butt cap with the index card and put in your drill press or mill and drill the two alignment holes into the butt cap the same depth as the index card thickness, or a touch more. Remove the index card and attach the butt cap to the handle. You can see this (most of it) in the cubic inch challenge knife I did. This also has a peened pin holding the butt cap on rather than a threaded finial. The pin head is pinned off the knife and glued in at final assembly.

Spacer indexing

I have pics of this process, but I can't figure out how to attach them in the post

The first step is to get the guard and spacers mounted on the tang. At least one of them should be a snug fit with very little or no movement. I generally press set the first spacer that goes against the guard. The other two are close or snug. None of them should be so tight that you have to hammer them off. Stack everything up and get it so the spacers are smooth flush and there are no gaps between them. Hold it up to a bright light and look through from side to side and top to bottom. No light should be visible between any of the fittings.

By this point, you should have each of these pieces "tagged" to tell you which one goes on in what order and what orientation. I like to number the upper right corner of the back side (away from the blade) with an up arrow. Lin Rhea uses a center punch and puts a different number of dimples just above the tang slot. Whatever you do, tag each piece so you can always put them back on in the correct orientation. With a 3-piece spacer, it's not too difficult to figure it out without the tags, but when you do a 6 piece spacer......:blink:

With everything together, squeeze the package tight and appliy a couple of drops of superglue to the seams between the spacers. Do NOT glue the front spacer to the guard. The guard should be so tight that you need to whack the tang to remove it. This will instantly break the superglue bond.

You can now remove the spacer package as a complete unit and drill your pin holes. I typically use 1/16" pins, but 3/32" pins will also work. I cannot get 1/16" drill bits into my drill press, but my mini-mill can do 1/16" drill bits. It also drill much truer than my drill press. I generally drill through the back spacer to the front. Sometimes the superglue breaks during the drilling and you do not complete the holes. If this happens, put everything back on the tang and insert the pin or pins as far as you can, and glue them together again. I Take the spacer package apart and clean the glue off. First scraping with a razor blade and then lightly sanding with 320 grit. Now I  put everything back on the tang with the pins in place. This makes sure that you have good pin alignment. Recheck the spacers for tight fit and get the spacers package superglued together again. Same as earlier.

Now remove the pins and insert the tang into the handle material. As with the spacer package, this should be a tight flush fit that no light shows through. Glue the last spacer to the handle material at the joint. Now remove the blade and guard. The spacer package is held to the handle material and will work as a guide for you to drill the holes into the handle. These do not have to be too deep. I typically set them about 1/8" into the handle.

 

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 8:03 am
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Second photo

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 8:05 am
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Third photo

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 8:06 am
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Fourth photo

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 8:06 am
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Fifth photo

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 8:07 am
Joshua C States
Posts: 334
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Sixt photo

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 8:07 am
Posts: 21
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith (5yr)
Topic starter
 

Super helpful Josh!

 

I believe I owe you a beer! Hit me up if you’re in Philadelphia @kevincunninghamknives on IG

 
Posted : 24/04/2021 10:47 pm
Posts: 53
Trusted Member Apprentice Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Thank you Joshua. I may have been drilling the holes too deep.

[email protected]

 
Posted : 26/04/2021 3:10 pm
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