There's quite a difference in machining and workability of 303 and 304 but I can't remember which is better.

Karl Andersen has pretty good experience and likes one of them very much. Hopefully he'll see this.

416 machines and polishes SO nice. It's very nice to work with. I prefer it even to nickel silver.

I've used 410 for some things too but I made a spacer out of 410 and fileworked it and it was a real bugger. I found it quite difficult to file. I did eventually get the job done but I think next time I'd thin down some 416 or use titanium.

There is quite a bit of difference in the steel types you mention.

300 series stainless is what is called austenitic stainless, as during heat treating it is rendered forever in the condition of austenite, which is non-magnetic.

As such, it can not be easily placed on things like the magnetic chuck of a surface grinder.

Machineability of these steels comes into question. 304 stainless is like milling and/or drilling putty. No good. If using an end mill or drill bit, it grabs the bits and causes a lot of breakage.

303 is the 300 series stainless that has a bit of sulfur added. This make making small parts which require drilling, tapping, threading, etc. possible.

400 series stainless steels are known as martensitic steels. They are magnetic.

This makes using surface grinding magnets possible.

Of these, 416 has the added sulfur to make them machineable.

It became popular with engravers because added sulfur makes cutting, drilling, carving, tapping, threading easy.

Even cutting on a band saw is easy with 416, yet not easy with other 400s or 300s.

The major down side of 416 is that its most common shelf condition is round stock, which makes many shapes for knife parts not all that easy to obtain unless you forge it into flat stock.

Keep in mind that the added sulfur is in there to make it COME APART!! Because of this, if a person is not careful and gets in a hurry when forging, it can rip and fall apart - so slow and careful is the rule.

This is also why I quit using it in my San Mai 4-5 years ago. I now use 410.

410 can also be used for a few things if spherodized first.

Lots to think about.

Thanks fellas,

Karl that's about as detailed a response as i could have hoped for, and definitely lots to chew on. Thank you very much.

Also, you can get 303, which machines quite easily, but it's expensive.

And so is 416 in flat bar stock.

What I do is keep a round bar of 416 around, something like 1 1/8", and whenever I'm doing a forging cycle on something, at the end I'll squish down enough 416 for a 1/2 dozen hunter guards, or so.

And it does require a spherodizing cycle, as it has enough carbon to harden enough to kill a drill bit.

Jesse,

Something came to my mind when I saw this post.... if you're considering what to use on your JS test knives, I would STRONGLY encourage you to go with 416 (of the two), simply because I have seen a number of applicants for JS fail because they used 316. Its not the material itself, but rather the difference in how much more difficult 316 is to finish then 416. Generally with 316, I've seen a lot of "shadow" scratches when inspecting knives made with it. Many of them looked like the individual had not completely gotten heavier grit scratches out, before they moved on, and the finished product showed it......especially in the testing rooms, because of the excellent lighting.

Part of the JS and MS testing is understanding the materials you use, to the point of knowing what will, or will not give you best chances for success. I generally recommend that those creating knives for their JS test use nickel silver, simply because its very easy to get a good finish when compared to most other hardware materials. Keep in mind, nobody in the judging room is going to care, or give you extra credit based on whether you use 316, 416, or anything else. They are going to look at how the material fits into the overall knife design, and particularly, how well/cleanly it is finished.

One thing that I have seen over the years as a judge at the JS level.....very often applicants will try to "impress" the judges by doing something that is generally beyond their current skill set. Many times in the process they do it poorly, and what they think is going to give them "wow factor" ends up sinking their ship. Wanna know what really impresses the judges? Its simple and clean designs, that are executed well, with a flawless finish. Many times I've heard from individuals who tried to do something that was beyond them (and had failed)........"I was trying to win the award for best JS knife." Guess what..... those who always win the awards, are the ones who do what I mentioned.....simple and clean designs, that are executed well, with a flawless finish.

So, all that being said, my advice is to build YOUR designs, use materials that you are familiar/comfortable with, AND..... use those materials that offer you the best chances for success...... in this case, if choosing between 316 and 416, go with 416, the odds are much more in your favor with it, versus 316, or any other 300 series stainless.

Excellent advice, Ed

I tried some 316 and could never get anything but a orange peel look when I tried to polish it. Never could get a mirror finish.

Dale