Steve:

Good selection for Topic of the Month! As you said we have had a lot recent discussion about power hammers on the ABS Forum.

This is the place to ask questions and we have many ABS members with extensive experience in this area so I am looking forward to learning from them.

I would be glad to start the ball rolling! I have a fond place in my heart for LITTLE GIANTS, it all goes back to my childhood when granpa Jones took me to the blacksmith shop in Independence Ks. to McConnell's shop.( he has his ANVIL collection in the Ag Hall of Fame)To see those "old time Blacksmiths"do everything from weld up plowshares to make knives for the locals was something you never forget! the triphammer pounding out 60 to 100 plowshares a day was what they shined at!those LITTLE GIANTS did it all.I remember seeing a special set of dies to make or sharpen harrow teeth, those dies paid for themselves a hundred times. JIM

Ive purchased 2. An transitional and a New Style. I think I have a deal worked out for a 3rd LG its a new style. I am also going to look at a 4th hammer that a old style belt drive.. These things are addictive.. Mike

As I posted earlier, I know that some of our ABS members have a lot of experience and expertise with power hammers and most of our members are in the market to purchase one at one time or another. These are some of the questions that I hear from our members that are in the market for one:

What factors should you look for in a power hammer such as a Little Giant when you are considering buying one from someone?

What size power hammer is ideal for what we do as Bladesmiths? 25 lb? 50lb? Or larger?

my view is a 50lb. is a good choice for most knife makers. the reasons are as follows,they are more plentiful, reasonable cost,and will do almost anything you want! as Dave Sloan has said look for damage,and the dies should not be "sunk". As the knife maker gets more and more "expert" he may want to specialize,and then may want a different hammer.but I have been guilty of being a tool collector at times ,and get blinded by wanting a "BIG HAMMER", when i should have gotten the right tool for the job !I have had a 250lb,a 25lb and 3 50lb little giant hammers and by far the 50 was the most versatile! The 1600 LB.STEAMHAMMER that Steve Culver and I ran one time was the most fun!!

I will take different stance than Jim and say a 25# Little Giant is the most versatile for the common blade smith. Quite a few people feel a bigger hammer will do more work for them. Usually in these cases I find that the individual has used a hammer most generally a 25#er. The initial problem is the hammer that they worked under was in poor shape and not properly adjusted.

My main defense is this in most cases you'll find a 25# hammer more common, but just as many 50's were made. One thing that makes 25's more desirable is size. With 50's being twice the weight. A good solid base made of wood will support a 25 where you should really have a concrete base of appropriate size under a 50. In my experience a 25 will do just as much work or more than a 50. If you take into account the speed of a 25 against the slower speed of the 50 I feel you get more work done with the 25. (Side note: quite a few of the 25# hammers that I have worked under have a 3 1/2 in pulley rather than the 3 inch, which cause the hammers to run faster) With a properly tuned 25 I've found that I can work just as large of stock the same as a 50 could forge. Personally I've forged down an old 3" Little Giant die with little problem under my 25 LG.

I guess what I'm trying to say if you have a 25 and you wanted to upgrade you would have to step up to a 100#er to gain any real advantage. But in today's market I think that you will soon find that 50's are more common.

As for some factors when purchasing a LG. The main thing to look for is that it says Mankato Minnesota. It's not a true LG or should I say a Little Giant that we commonly refer to. The Little Giant name was also used by a power hammer company in Wisconsin and Canada, these hammers do not have interchangeable parts with the parts that Sid currently sells without major mods.

Something that I'd like to see encouraged on this thread is that Steve limited the discussion to mechanical hammers. I'm sure the guys out there with air hammers are saying "Hey what about me". Also let's not forget Russ, he told me he only uses a threadle hammer. He's my new hero.

Dave from Diller

I have used a 25# and a 50#, also a Sahinler air hammer. Right now I have an old model 25# that runs pretty well. For my shop it works well, being it is a little bit smaller and definitely weighs less than a 50. Granted I would love to have an air hammer, but my 25 works fine, and I would not trade it.

I tend to agree with Dave, I think I can work as fast with my 25# as with a 50#. Mainly because it hits faster, plus I like the semi-portability. I did say semi - portable. I also like that I can call up Sid and get parts if needed.

There is also something kind of cool about having and using a hammer that is over 90 years old and thinking what has been made on that hammer. Just have to watch out for the oil being flung out on each side.

Brion

I mostly have experience with 50# hammers, as that is what I have in my shop. But, I was impressed by Bevan's 25# hammer when we used it for the last Heartland Symposium. It clearly was sufficient for bladesmithing use. Too, it was great that it was easy to transport to the site of the Symposium.

Steve limited the discussion to mechanical hammers

I really didn't mean to exclude any type of hammer from this thread. Although, my thoughts were that we might post other threads on air hammers and also man-powered hammers. But, we can always copy a post to another thread. So, if anyone wants to comment on other styles of hammers on this thread, go to it!

The 1600 LB.STEAMHAMMER that Steve Culver and I ran one time was the most fun!!

Using that 1600# steam hammer was a hoot!!! I just wish we could have made our demo last a little longer. We made a sheet metal pancake out of a large bar of steel in just a couple of seconds. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//laugh.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> You can squash a lot of steel in a big hurry with a 1600# hammer!!

Dave, upon review I will the add the following......a lot of knifemakers will buy a triphamer and just use it as is! that is why i would suggest a 50lb.If everyone would fix em up or rebuild em then i would tell everyone to get a 25lb.!!! YOU KNOW HOW HAPPY I AM WITH MINE! Steve Dunn was I think a little reluctant to use a 25lb.and was very happy making Damascas with it! he said it did evething he wanted it to do.later he said he wanted to take it home to kentucky.(He uses i believe a 300 lb.Chambersburg)

Hello everyone, I have had three Little Giant hammers in my shop over the last 25 years. At this time there is a 50# and 100# and the both are fitted with a spring and arm guard for saftey. When I build a guard it not only protects you from the spring, should it break but also the whole ram area is covered. The other item not supplied by the factory is a flywheel brake, I think that the addition of the brake makes the hammer much easier to control, with hammer adjusted properly you can get almost full power with a single blow. If I can find them I will post some sketches that show how to mount a brake.

Very interesting thread. Thank you for starting it Steve and thank you to all who are contributing so far.

I have what may seem like a silly question but here goes... In my mind, a good shop will have 110 & 220 power supplies and a Great shop will have 3 phase power to accommodate all of the toys that we need/want/crave. I would assume that the smaller mass of a 25# might only require a 110 power supply versus more serious power requirements for some of the larger hammers. What is the typical power supply requirements for the smaller hammers versus larger ones? Obviously it will depend on the motor running it, so what is the minimum that a person could get away with in order to properly operate the various sizes of hammers?

Rick

Rick,

The smaller hammers such as 25's can be run at 110, also a 50 can be run at 110, but a 3 hp motor is recommended and that will take 220. I'm currently running my 100 on a 5 horse motor with 220 single phase. That is all we have in the town proper. Population 300.

You can get away with single phase until you get up to the bigger LG's such as the 250's and 500's.

I hope this helps.

Now on to brakes. This is one of the mainly discussed topics of mechanical hammers. The elusive single blow. I'll open this can of worms. Coming at it from both sides. My first side will be without brakes. Don Hanson III has three hammers without brakes. Now this mainly refers to bladesmiths, blacksmiths love the one hit. You can forge a blade without a brake. Karl Anderson can also do this without a brake.

But, now this is in defense of the brake. If you are going to use a lot of tooling to forge a blade or if you hate the run on. Then you will need a brake. I have found the larger hammers (100 pounders don't need a brake). The extra mass causes the hammer to stop in what ever position needed.

I have a 25 with a brake and a 100 without, but I have worked with hammers without a brake more than I have with one and have found that when I forge blades it doesn't really matter. Backing up a step you can forge a smoother blade with a brake though..

Hopefully this gave you some insight into brakes.

Dave from Diller

Butch,

I would like to see the sketches on the brake. I don’t' have a brake on my hammer and not sure that I need one, but I always like to have a plan.

Being able to control your hammer for a one blow hit is most important if you are using forming dies between the hammer dies; like the dies for damascus patterns. When using forming dies in a hammer, the strike from the hammer will often bounce the forming dies out of alignment with the work piece. A second blow on the misaligned forming dies will mess up your work. I have a hydraulic press to use with forming dies, so it isn't so important to me that my hammer can be so controlled.

I forge almost all of my blades with my 50# LG hammer. No problem with not having a brake when forging blades, but you don’t want your hammer to run on too much. Makes getting the work back between the dies a problem.

I best accessories that I have for my hammer are the two part interchangeable dies from Sid Suedmeier. These dies have bases that are installed in the hammer and interchangeable dies that bolt to the bases. You don’t' have to mess with the wedges to change dies; just bolt a different set of dies to the base.

Thanks Dave! Good to know for future shop plans.