To our benefit, I have not heard once that attendance at either knife shows or hammer-ins is slipping. But. rather, to the contrary.

Being a regular table holder at Blade I can certainly attest to that. The last two years have been off-the-hook.

And the hammer-ins I attend are bustling.

Seasoned knife makers are teaching with waiting lines.

We even have a new "Guild" - "The Mid West Knife Maker's Guild" that sprung up last year and is doing well in Minnesota.

Also a bit cliche is the phrase, "If it ain't broke............"

But, also true, is that any organization that does not continually "create" itself and expand its reach..........shrinks. We have to keep pumping life into it.

I am so glad we have a set of guidelines and good folks at the helm to maintain our standards. It's vital we never let that slacken. Ensuring that each of us continue to watch each other and give encouragement and assistance when needed will go a long way to keeping us solid. But a younger knife making generation is blooming that definitely has a different comfort zone and familiarity that we must also embrace and and get comfortable with ourselves.

I'm the wrong one to ask about such things.

Kevin,

Thanks for starting this discussion. As the person that plans the Smoky Mountain Hammer-In, I am also interested in connecting with the younger knife makers and getting them to attend the Hammer-In and classes we have at Haywood Community College. Most of the people that attend are 40+ in age. I don't know what is holding the younger generation back? Do they not want to associate with older makers, because we are not cool enough or do they think the web and Instagram has the answer to everything. How do we get their feedback on what they want and how do we get them to take an active role? I would love to hear some feedback from the younger new makers.

Thanks

ken

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Kevin,

Thanks for starting this discussion. As the person that plans the Smoky Mountain Hammer-In, I am also interested in connecting with the younger knife makers and getting them to attend the Hammer-In and classes we have at Haywood Community College. Most of the people that attend are 40+ in age. I don't know what is holding the younger generation back? Do they not want to associate with older makers, because we are not cool enough or do they think the web and Instagram has the answer to everything. How do we get their feedback on what they want and how do we get them to take an active role? I would love to hear some feedback from the younger new makers.

Thanks

ken

At a guess time and money, I have noticed in my own classes the longer more costly classes tend to fill the with the 40+ crowd, the single day and two day class get lots of younger students. Social media is important as well after all if you are not reaching the young , then they don't know about it to join in!

I think one suggestion I have is to create a way to start smaller local chapters, some thing that could hold meetings and allow for personal interaction with other makers. (without pestering any one when they are trying to work) I help run a smallish blacksmith club, we hold meetings 4-5 times a year and sponsor a scholarship. something like this sanctioned by or connected in some way to the ABS, might be a great grass roots way to reach people.

As a newer member I am going to second what Matt said. While attending a 1 or 2 week class or a big hammer-in would be well worthwhile in the long run, it is a big investment in terms of time and money. Starting local chapters might be one way to reach people. Another way might be to have local/regional calendars or listings of smaller classes or workshops being offered. There are MS and JS scattered throughout most states. If they would offer small classes or workshops (I think many do?) and there was a way to make this information available, perhaps there might be more interest. Speaking for myself, I'd be more inclined to drive a couple of hours for a 1 or 2 day class a few times than to travel halfway across the country for one major educational event. If there was a section on the website that listed classes and workshops by state or region I'd be checking it frequently to see what was in my area that would be feasible to attend.

Thanks,

Dave

One thing that I always thought would be a great goal would be to find ways to make the ABS such an asset to the knifemaking community that we could attract a large number of people who had no interest in the Journeyman or Master ratings program. Don’t get me wrong, I understand that the ratings are the core of the ABS and our single greatest contribution to custom knives. But I think it would be great if we could be much more than that in our educational value, that a young maker with no interest in the JS or MS still thought that the ABS was the single greatest learning resource that they had.

A favorite saying in this business, for as long as I have been in it, has been “paying your dues”. In the 1990’s that meant working hard to develop your work, often for years if you did it on your own, until you got noticed in a magazine or at shows. One way to shorten this period was to join a group that could decrease your learning curve and help get you noticed. This was the ABS’s appeal for sure. But today a young new maker can hold all that in the palm of their hand and, between YouTube, Facebook and Instagram all but eliminate the dues paying part. We need to find ways to be a valuable asset to them above and beyond that. I don’t say that in terms of swelling our numbers, but truly how we can always be seen as an invaluable asset to knifemaking.

Ken you have some good insights with the school, and I hope it is not a generational “cool” thing, because to anybody into knives, doing really great work will always be as cool as it gets, unless we are dealing with a much younger demographic that doesn’t need to worry about income yet. But I too fear becoming the grandpa trying to hang out with the teenagers at a party. If we were to get out there and actually handle the knives of the wholly internet educated smiths and found them entirely up to our standards then I would say the ABS is in serious trouble, but I have a hunch that ABS MS level work is still the gold standard in the business. So indeed, how do we maintain that and communicate that we are here to help anybody who wants to reach that goal?

|quoted:

As a newer member I am going to second what Matt said. While attending a 1 or 2 week class or a big hammer-in would be well worthwhile in the long run, it is a big investment in terms of time and money. Starting local chapters might be one way to reach people. Another way might be to have local/regional calendars or listings of smaller classes or workshops being offered. There are MS and JS scattered throughout most states. If they would offer small classes or workshops (I think many do?) and there was a way to make this information available, perhaps there might be more interest. Speaking for myself, I'd be more inclined to drive a couple of hours for a 1 or 2 day class a few times than to travel halfway across the country for one major educational event. If there was a section on the website that listed classes and workshops by state or region I'd be checking it frequently to see what was in my area that would be feasible to attend.

Thanks,

Dave

Hmmm, food for thought. Thanks David.

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At a guess time and money, I have noticed in my own classes the longer more costly classes tend to fill the with the 40+ crowd, the single day and two day class get lots of younger students. Social media is important as well after all if you are not reaching the young , then they don't know about it to join in!

I think one suggestion I have is to create a way to start smaller local chapters, some thing that could hold meetings and allow for personal interaction with other makers. (without pestering any one when they are trying to work) I help run a smallish blacksmith club, we hold meetings 4-5 times a year and sponsor a scholarship. something like this sanctioned by or connected in some way to the ABS, might be a great grass roots way to reach people.

I have always liked the idea of regional groups making up the whole of an organization. The toughest part is motivating the local populations to get fired up about it. I have tried a couple of times in MI and if you don't have one, or two, very dedicated people to constantly push it forward it tends to fizzle out. I think an ABS made up of many more local groups of dedicated smiths would be a good thing.

I'll put my money where my mouth is an offer up my shop as a meeting location and my self as host.

I think what is missing is a frame work that local chapters could work with in. starting something whole from air is tough and take a lot of dedication from someone to make it work and keep it going. Once established it is much easier to keep it going, fitting it with in the frame work of the ABS would make that easier for new groups to get established.

Something perplexing and frustrating to the leadership of the ABS is when we get requests to do a hammer-in or event in an area that we would really like to see one, but when we ask if there is a site to host it, and somebody on the ground who knows the area to facilitate it, everything goes silent. It is even more confusing when the ABS receives negative feedback for not being able to magically make these things appear. So long as I could work it into my schedule, and not lose money on the travel, I personally would be willing to go anywhere in the world and do a talk or demo in support of a local group, even if I did it for five people. But I have to have a place to do it and somebody there guiding things.

Perhaps this is where we can tap into the technology of our time. It would be a grand thing to have some sort of a live feed, or Skype type, interface where a small local ABS group could interact with the speaker or demonstrator of their choice at almost any venue where they could gather and set up the connection.

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At a guess time and money, I have noticed in my own classes the longer more costly classes tend to fill the with the 40+ crowd, the single day and two day class get lots of younger students. Social media is important as well after all if you are not reaching the young , then they don't know about it to join in!

I think one suggestion I have is to create a way to start smaller local chapters, some thing that could hold meetings and allow for personal interaction with other makers. (without pestering any one when they are trying to work) I help run a smallish blacksmith club, we hold meetings 4-5 times a year and sponsor a scholarship. something like this sanctioned by or connected in some way to the ABS, might be a great grass roots way to reach people.

Matthew, thanks for the feedback. In addition to the Hammer-In, at Haywood we have a knife club that meets one a month, where we have some type of demo and we have been have 3 or 4 ABS classes each year. This past year I put together 2 and 3 day weekend class for beginner ( https://creativearts.haywood.edu/events/category/classes/metals/). We have one weekend class a month. Even with all of this, most of the participates are older. We are working to get the word out about class and there seem to be a lot of interest, but the number of people actually taking class is small.

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Matthew, thanks for the feedback. In addition to the Hammer-In, at Haywood we have a knife club that meets one a month, where we have some type of demo and we have been have 3 or 4 ABS classes each year. This past year I put together 2 and 3 day weekend class for beginner ( https://creativearts.haywood.edu/events/category/classes/metals/). We have one weekend class a month. Even with all of this, most of the participates are older. We are working to get the word out about class and there seem to be a lot of interest, but the number of people actually taking class is small.

If that is the case I would guess it is either cost thing, or more likely a marketing issue.

We seem to be doing pretty well at getting young people in to classes, what we have done is to create a marketing plan mostly using social media to get in front of people, instagram facebook youtube patreon snapchat, are all ways to get to young people.

I have found that linking more than one helps, creating a "brand " with a clear message is important but it has to be genuine. This will sound odd, but you kind of need to be kind of punk rock about it, that is act like you don't care. Just get it in front of them and put it out there, then sort of ignore them. I am not so old that I don't remember being a teen / young adult I remember the one thing I couldn't stand was being talked down to, and being told what I could/should do and i think that is a part of it. young people discover the world through connections much more than earlier generations so another thing that comes to mind that may help you is to get some collaborations going. thoughts on that, find a local or national smith that is younger with a decent following get them in for a class and post about it, or even a tour of the shop all posted on social media. Create a hashtag, something to link all your efforts together , and make it easier to find more information and posts, make it a consistent message.

I hope that helps. MP

This is a great thread.

There is a hierarchy as far as education about knives. The ABS is tops and indeed have set the standard. There are lots of schools and lots of classes but the ABS has the testing system and the ranking system. I teach at, and will teach at, different schools but will always direct those who want to take their career to that standard, to follow the ABS testing system.

With so many "schools" of thought and so many new things on the horizon, the ABS will need to maintain it's standard foremost and above all. While doing that, I believe it should keep an open mind of acceptance of some of these things that are going to be coming into sight. For example, the Forged in Fire culture may not be my cup of tea, but I cannot deny that it has helped expose a whole new audience to the world of knives. Some of that audience will want to learn to make knives and take it to that high ABS standard. And there will be other things like that too, I hope. I hope because any related TV program, class, school, or fad (even though it doesn't suite my personal taste)will serve as a inspiration to spark that interest. The cream will rise to the top. The ABS is at the top waiting to help.

In the mean time, as individuals we can hold a high standard in our work, teach when we get an opportunity, and offer or shop and our time for ABS events. I certainly am offering my shop for an ABS event now.

While the above may not seem to address the subject directly, I believe that it is our main course to take. Stay positive, hold a high standard, and stay the course. Since the ABS is non profit and limited by factors of finance, these two things; The mission statement concerning education - and - the testing standard,... these two things set them apart from everyone else and should play to this strong point. YouTube, TV, and even the new James Black School can serve to create interest in knife making. That's work and money that the ABS doesn't have to spend to reap a percentage. The ABS is not in the marketing business yet there has been a resurgence of interest in knife making so, obviously, someone is marketing knife making.

Factors that we cannot control create relevance. Some of my Tuesday group want to learn to make knives because of their main interest of historic re-enactment. So, in as much as it relates to their main interest, they would like to make knives.

Not for a business.

Not with a rank in mind.

But they need education and some percentage of those will and have enrolled in the ABS courses.

Relevance is in the eye of the beholder. Only the individual can know that... OR not. In 2002 I only wanted to be a hobby knife maker. The ABS introduced a whole new world to me. I did not know it was relevant till I was exposed to it. Only the individual can decide that.

I hate to say it this way but some of us ABS members are still in a T-Model honking at the fast cars whizzing around us. We still get there eventually but we get left behind pretty often when getting there fast really counts.

I really like this thread too!!! The idea of a small local group has quite a bit of appeal with some folks that live around me (NE Indiana). I’m willing to invest some time and effort and see what happens.

A little late to this party, but I also have to agree with David on local/regional chapters with shorter classes. My goal is to eventually make it to the 2 week class in Troy, Ohio. I can't complain too much since it just 2 hours away, but it is still a big time commitment that I am just not able to make with my work schedule. If there were shorter classes like David suggested at 1-2 days it would be much easier for me to make it. I understand that not a lot can be covered in that short amount of time, but for me, a little is better than nothing since I am still very much in the beginning of learning the craft. And yes, most of my learning thus far has been online (mostly from these forums) but I can definitely attest to what Kevin said:

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Despite how much people may think they learn online, anybody who has been to an ABS hammer-in, or class, knows that there is no comparison.

My very first hammer-in was this year's Mid America, and after the whirl-wind of that weekend, I can confidently say that it was more beneficial than all of my personal research.

Maybe take the idea of the hammer-in and make it a weekend dedicated to a specific portion of knife-making (forging techniques, grinding, fit and finish, etc.) This wouldn't be a replacement for a hammer-in or a 2-week class by any means, but something to either supplement each or a "quick-hitter" class for someone like me or David.

As much as I hate it, social media is here to stay for the foreseeable future so I feel like embracing it can only further the ABS in the youth's eyes. I know I'm probably still considered young by most people's standards, but I found out over the Christmas holiday that 31 is fairly old to my 16 year-old nephew. To him, if it's not on Twitter, Instagram or Tik Tok, it's not important. To Lin's point and T-model example, in this world of instant gratification and short attention spans, getting there fast is more and more a necessity to stay relevant. Since almost everyone over the age of 8 has an internet connection on-demand, it seems as though utilizing the tools of the new generation is going to be required. Like these forums for instance, I can see them becoming obsolete with the tl;dr viewpoint. For those who don't know, tl;dr means "too long, didn't read" and this was one thing my nephew informed me of. So, using this mindset, most of the younger generation wouldn't take the time to scour though wealth of knowledge on the threads.

Finally, I know that I don't have a lot to offer as of yet, but I'd be more than happy to help in my local area in any way that I can.