Lots of questions there Mike. Let's start out with the one I think is most important:

1. Is it even possible to obtain JS or MS without these important tools working a full time job away from home?

Yes, it is and probably everyone of those JS and MS whose work you admire started out with exactly the tools you have now. I know I did and it's taken me 10 years to acquire the tools and equipment I have today. Every day (well every weekend really) between then and now was spent learning to use what I had the best I could. You have everything you need (except maybe a few more hammers, tongs, and files) to forge and finish knives. What you don't have is someone to lower the slope of the learning curve.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that learning through stock removal is a great way to begin this art. Learning how to grind properly and cleanly is more important than being an expert at forging. Don't get me wrong, learning to forge well is important, but like any pro welder tell you "the guy with the grinder can make a crappy welder look good or a great welder look crappy."

2. Is there anyone in Arkansas that can show my hands on forging techniques instead of watching a video without breaking the bank?

Yeah there are plenty of folks in Arkansas that can help you along. Some of them frequent this forum. In order to learn basic forging techniques, I'd suggest a couple of books rather than youtube videos. Anything by Mark Aspery is good. There are a couple at the ABS store too. There is another American Association called ABANA. Here is there websiate address:

http://abana.org/

Click the "Affiliates" link to locate a local chapter in your area. Check their calendar and see when they are having a demo or hammer in. Go there and meet folks. Chances are good there will be at least 1 knife maker at that event.

Mike

Welcome to the Abs and forum. Arkansas has a very active blacksmithing club,{ blacksmithofarkansas.org } check them out.

I belong to the Oklahoma state club. Just like the Oklahoma club, the Arkansas club holds meets all around the state

I would bet one closer to you than you thank. I was not a member the first meeting I went to but everyone welcomed me. I

would be willing to say that the Arkansas club would be no different. There you can learn basic blacksmithing.

and you will find members there that are interested in knives as well.

They will know the best places to pickup tools for the best price as well. Check out there web sight and see, look

at there newsletters on the web sight. I think the club could help you out in your early stages of knife making and

learning smithing.

Hope this helps some.

Anthony

Thank you for the website links you guys gave to me. I will definitely check them out when I get off work this evening. I build power lines all over the state of Arkansas and we mostly work in the southwest region. I had a chance to tour old historic Washington because I knew the bladesmithing classes were held there. Unfortunately it was closed down when I was there but I did get to see the museum that had all the Bowie knives and it was pretty awesome. I think I've made up my mind tho to try and save my pennies from the knives I sell to try and attend one or more of the classes instead of buying more tools. I feel knowledge at this time for me is more important. Elbow grease is not a problem for me lol. I havnt made a hidden tang yet because guardes scare me for some reason. But I know that I have to master the things in order to achieve my goals. As far as steel goes the only 2 I have worked with so far is 1095 and O1 tool steel. What steel is recommended for the beginner smith that's relatively forgiving to heat treat? And what thickness of bar stock should I get? I don't use salt baths or anything like that, just my canola oil in my Ammo can lol.

Howdy Mike!

I'm a beginner myself, and I've been through some similar struggles. When I first started, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of information on knifemaking. Then, through the miracle of the internet, I found the ABS and some other helpful resources. This forum has been a source of accurate and extremely helpful information from unbelievably generous people. I would encourage you to browse the apprentice section and topic of the month section, to start with.

You mentioned wanting to attend a class, but have some financial barriers. I would recommend that you check out the hammer-ins. It is, hands down, the cheapest way to learn so much in so little time. People are super friendly and very quick to help. Furthermore, you can find out if there is someone in your area that you can meet up with to practice your forging. The two hammer-ins that I've been to had a basic forging seminar that answered a lot of questions for me.

It seems like you have a pretty solid start, as far as tools and equipment goes. I would say there may be some tools to put on your short list before you think about a power hammer and a mill. A file guide is indispensable, if you don't have one already. I think Mr. States is correct in his advice above. Good forging is important, but good can get you a quality knife while you're still working on your smithing skills.

Happy forging,

Tim

Mike,

Check out Uncle Al's or give him a call( Riverside Machine in the suppliers links on ABS web page ). Go to a meeting, meet some people and ask for help.

Thanks,

Steve Seib

These are awesome questions. I'm not a Journeyman yet, but I went through this same process when I started.

My favorite material to forge is 1/4 x 1 inch 1084 or similar. It's a good size to work with and you can make a wide range of blades with it. As far as size goes, that depends on how far you like to work your piece before grinding, and you'll just have to try a few to see what works best for you. 1/4 inch files from flea markets are also a great size. You can get multiple knives out of each one and spend $1-2 each on them.

Don't shame yourself for doing stock removal. The ABS is more dedicated to the art of forging the blade, and that's a good thing, because it is quite a different approach to the art and the knife design in general. But every forged knife gets to the grinder at some point.

You need to build a portfolio. What you invest into now, is what your customers are going to latch on to if you do a good job. I would caution you that if you get good at stock removal and your buyers latch on to a stock removal design, you might end up spending more time doing that than forging. As you build your business, people are going to see photos of your successful builds and ask for more of them. So you're either going to need to make them happy and fill that order, or you're going to have to convince them to buy one of your forged designs. And in my opinion it should be an upsell because a forged knife should cost more than a stock removal knife (given the same materials).

When I have forged a blade in the past it's been out of old car springs and railroad spikes. I havnt tried ordering stock to forge yet. That's why I asked. But my finished procuct always ended up way to thin trying to get the shape I wanted. Do u always oversize your piece in order to get all the hammer marks out when grinding?

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When I have forged a blade in the past it's been out of old car springs and railroad spikes. I havnt tried ordering stock to forge yet. That's why I asked. But my finished procuct always ended up way to thin trying to get the shape I wanted. Do u always oversize your piece in order to get all the hammer marks out when grinding?

Yes, but it's balance. There's an old motto "forge thick, grind thin". If you forge too thick you're not gaining much benefit from forging the knife that you couldn't have done with stock removal. If you forge too thin, you're not going to get all of the forging marks out until the blade is thinner than you wanted. It takes some practice, and you need to decide which is more efficient for you. Because you can spend an extra hour hammering the blade to 95%, or you can leave it at 80% and grind it the rest of the way. I like to overdraw my bevels just a little bit. Like say down to a dime's thickness. That leaves some room to grind them back. You need to leave some thickness to grind off so your plunge lines come out clearly(if that's the design you're going for). Then it gets more complicated when you get into forge welded blades, because how it's forged can play a part in how the patterns come out. For example if you forge san mai too far, you'll have very thin mild steel sides that will get mostly ground away and rendering the process pointless.

I have a couple of suggestions.

If you dont have it already, get the book Handles and Guards by Joe Keeslar. It's available through the ABS and this website. It will cover the basics to help you get in your mind the principles of making about any type of handle construction. Excellent book.

Check the schedule for ABS Hammer Ins that are coming up. Attend.

Learn blacksmithing.

Get with like minded and skilled folks and apply what you learn and encourage one another. Share rides to Hammer Ins and shop visits. Always be reaching upward. Don't always hang out with your peers. Go where you can watch better makers and learn better ways.

Follow the work of good knife makers and when possible, watch them work or ask them questions.

Dont give up if you fail. Keep trying.

lol I'm many moons away from forge welding. I'm just trying to understand the basic fundamentals at this point.

Lin do u still work at the museum in Little Rock? If so I would really love to meet you! You do absolutely stunning work.

It doesn't happen overnight.

Get what you NEED - not what you WANT - to help with your next step as you increase your knowledge.

And remember, "Knife making is a lifetime of buying tools. Then you die."

Thanks Mike.

Yes I still work there. If you're in the neighborhood during a weekday, stop by and maybe we can visit.

|quoted:

It doesn't happen overnight.

Get what you NEED - not what you WANT - to help with your next step as you increase your knowledge.

And remember, "Knife making is a lifetime of buying tools. Then you die."

This is the basic truth in a nutshell. Thanks Karl, you are a man of few words, but they are accurate and to the point.

Mike, you said: "and (I) have managed to acquire a KMG, a evenheat kiln, drill press, anvil and small forge"

I worked on forging & stock removal knives for over two years with the same set up, except the heat treating kiln. When you look waaaay back in time (like 1200 years or so) you will find that incredibly beautiful knives and swords and axes were being made by Celtic and Saxon smiths who had much less equipment than you do. You have everything you need except the skills. Those you can't buy, you have to build them the hard way. By doing it. Preferably under the guidance of someone who already knows how. When I needed to learn to forge, I started with mild steel. It's cheap, easier to forge than tool steel, and you can make all sorts of useful stuff learning to taper, draw out, fuller, bevel, and otherwise shape steel. Every forging skill you need to make a knife is in the same skill set you need to make this wall hook from 1/2" square bar. So make a bunch of these (you can skip adding the marble). You can even sell them or give them away as holiday gifts.