This is a good subject Gary. I will participate and surely look forward to the pictures and the input.

I am weak on tooling. I just don't have many dies and don't like to make them. So I usually forge them free hand. I get them close and start grinding. I don't mind forging, then grinding, then back forging if that's what it takes to get it right.

Below is a ball guard that I forged and filed to shape. The first picture is the forged guard. I had a measurement in mind and kept checking as I forged. I forged the balls and flattened the guard and widened it where the ferrule and handle would go.

Some grinding and this is where it is at. It's ready to drill and file the slot.

After a day or so of filing and hand sanding, the guard is ready. I had a drawing to go by so there was no room for error.

That guard was 416 stainless. I learned a lot forging this material. It has a high, narrow range of range in which you can safely forge. If you get below that range, it will separate. If you get too hot, it will crumble. But the range is bright orange to yellow. If it gets below orange, stop hammering and heat it up some more.

Always do a shade tree anneal after every forging or after heating it with a torch. It will air harden and it will have a hamon, which you don't want on your fittings. The anneal will keep it tougher and even in color.

Good stuff Lin. Can you show/explain how you forge the balls on the ends? I'm weak on that and end up doing more filing/grinding than I would like.

Gary

Heeeeey!! This is the subject that I was going to put up for the April Topic of the Month! Guess we could try to move it over to the Topic of the Month sub-topic. I can't remember how to do that right now....

|quoted:

Heeeeey!! This is the subject that I was going to put up for the April Topic of the Month! Guess we could try to move it over to the Topic of the Month sub-topic. I can't remember how to do that right now....

<img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Sorry.

This is now the Topic of the Month for April 2016. I moved it to this sub Forum.

Thank you Gary for starting this Topic!

I'll add a little to the discussion and that would be about materials used for the forged fixtures. So far the ones that I have attempted are 416 stainless, Damascus steel and wrought iron. I'm sure that there are others and if you've used them please add to this.

Lin talked about using the 416 and I think that most here have forged Damascus which is going to work about like most carbon steels. The wrought iron isn't a lot different from steel with the possible exception of needing to be worked a little hotter. I like to work it at a yellow color. If you have some particularly dirty wrought iron it can also give some interesting textures to your fixtures. And for me anyway, it has proved to accept being blued better than steel though I can't give you an explanation why. By using both blued and polished fixtures you can achieve some interesting contrasts with your forged fixtures. Here's an example of blued W/I next to polished 416:

Here's one that had some "dirty wrought iron" in the guard & handle spacers that I etched with ferric:

Gary

Here's an approach to forging and forming S guards you might find interesting. It's a good example of how important using heat as a tool. This guard is forged from 416. It is forged flat on the front and ramped down on the top and the bottom lug. It is asymmetric and I have chiseled a slot into the back as start to my tang slot so as to lessen the drilling and milling. To get this far, a high heat is required to move the 416 and not damage it. Thus it is scaled up pretty heavy. Anneal it, even if it's a crude anneal.

Next, I mill out the slot and recess the back handle area somewhat to remove the bulk of contact in the middle. Then the starter holes can be drilled to sink the end mill into. I find this easier on my small mill.

Next, I de scale the face of the guard and smooth it up to within reach of hand sanding. I do this while the piece is laid out straight and I can use a flat platen on my grinder to make it faster. I would hate to remove the deep forge scale entirely by hand after it is shaped into an S so I do it now knowing I wont be heating it above any deep scaling temperatures again. I finish milling and filing the slot and drift to true North and South in the filing of the slot. I do this while the guard is still straight and easier to eyeball. Yes, some tweaking will be necessary after the curves are made but it will be minimal.

Now I can hold the guard in the smooth jaw vise in the middle area with the lug sticking up to be accessed by the torch. I use a brazing tip and heat to a medium red and tap the lug into the curve I want. I turn it over and repeat the process on the other end. The vise jaw being cold and the heat applied to the 416 lug is red, so this will likely leave what is essentially a hamon in the material where the top of the vise jaw was on the piece. I don't want that. So, I anneal again at a medium heat (picture makes it look hotter than it is). This evens everything out, color, hardness, etc.

The scale that is on the guard can much more easily be removed since it was worked and annealed well below the deep scaling temperatures. Here is the finished knife.

Guys, thank you all so much for sharing. I continue to be amaze by the willingness of this forums gifted members to give their time and experience to the rest of us.

Here is a jig I us to hold sculpted guards while they are off the knife. This will allow you to file and sand the back of the guard in the inside curves. This is a 1/2 inch square tubing about 4 inches long with a hole near one end and a small allthread run through and a knurled nut on each end. I use a small fender washer too. The leather is to protect the face against the tubing. The hole is near enough to the end of the tubing to allow the forward lug to get past. It holds easily in the vise.

Thanks, Lin. I enjoyed seeing your techniques. Do you normally start with 416 rod or bar?

Gary

Gary, I have both and I just use which is handy.

I have been punching my slot, with a slot punch made from H-13.

Then using the tang to drift the slot.

Once the faces are cleaned up I chase the slop of the guard hole closed and reface the guard.

While I haven't gotten the perfect fit I am aiming for, I am closer to any drilled, and laboriously filed fit I've done.

I've considered doing the 4 sided shoulder ricasso and drifting to the should enough that it leaves and indent on the face of the guard.

Grinding flush and attempting a press fit.

Just haven't made it that far.

Any thoughts?

I sometimes will hot fit a guard. This is one example of when I used this method. It is a take down Camp Knife. This knife got the Camp Knife Award in 2015 at the Arkansas Custom Knife Show.

To accomplish this, I went about things almost in reverse. I had the stainless guard stock cut off the bar with a bit extra length and width. I think it was 3/4 x 3/8 or something like that. I first drilled and milled a slot tight to the tang but I had to heat the guard to orange and slid it down and drove it on very quickly using a wood driver with a split in it. I had to repeat the operation a couple times to get past the shoulders. You can see in the picture that I left the shoulders radiused and made the inside of the hot guard take that shape for a perfect fit. The blade was not etched yet by the way. If any gaps form, the guard can be lightly hammered on it's side to force it to tighten up to the sides of the ricasso/tang junction.

When I fit the guard stock hot, I ended up with it tilted slightly out of alignment from square to the ricasso so when I re faced the guard, I had to re square the face to the blade and I then had to re face the back to get it parallel again. The sides were also out of "square" but they would be naturally go into alignment to the handle anyway. These are just some things to consider when you try to think backwards.