Notifications
Clear all

First Cu Mai

6 Posts
2 Users
1 Reactions
137 Views
Posts: 5
Active Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

6 months into my bladesmithing journey and my 2nd blade was this Cu Mai. My fit and finish, not to mention all other aspects of my skills need lots of growth but I am proud to have hand forged this blade. Still too poor for a press or power hammer or even a treadle hammer. 

I’m currently setting up for a blade consisting of a 80CRV2 core clad by copper, 1084, brass and another layer of 1084 or 80CRV2. Not sure what that’s called but looking forward to the results. If anyone knows the forge welding term for using copper and brass together let me know.

 
Posted : 04/01/2025 12:59 pm
Topic Tags
Joshua C States
Posts: 367
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Using copper or brass in a patten-welded billet is not forge welding. It's brazing two pieces of steel to each other. The bond is, metallurgically speaking, very strong as the non-ferrous material works its way into the grain boundaries. It is also very brittle and prone to cracking under heat and stress. For this reason, most Cu Mai is not forged much to shape but is mostly stock removal shaped after bonding. 
The melting point of most common brass is well below either copper or steel. The melting point of copper is also well below the melting point of simple steels like 10XX series steel. I would advise against using any brass in your pattern welding. 

At this point in your blade smithing journey, it is very easy to fall into the pattern-welding rabbit hole and think you need to start creating Damascus, Cu Mai, and complex blade forms. It is also easy to think that if a blade isn't one of these complex compositions, it isn't "cool" or impressive. This is detrimental to your ultimate success in this craft, when what you really need to focus on is forging a blade to shape and developing the skills required to design and shape a useful and attractive knife.

I will say bravo for creating a successful Cu Mai and for hand forging it to shape. However, you admit "My fit and finish, not to mention all other aspects of my skills need lots of growth" and I would advise you to spend more energy on those things and far less effort on pattern welding. It will serve you much better in the long run.

If you really want to dabble in pattern-welded blades, I will tell you that you do not need a power hammer or press to make impressive Damascus. There are many flat patterns and twist patterns that can be accomplished just by hand forging. You can even get to a relatively high layer count without either press or power hammer. Is it much easier with those tools? Yes, but it isn't necessary to have them.

If you want to dabble in non-ferrous metalworking with copper/brass/nickel-silver, do some research on Mokume Gane, make some, and use it for fittings on your knives. Warning! This is another rabbit hole that will take time and energy away from learning the skills you have already identified as needing the most work.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 06/01/2025 9:56 am
Ryan Larson reacted
Posts: 5
Active Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Thank you, Joshua C States! That’s very encouraging to hear, I know I feel that monosteel and low level patterns are unimpressive or not worth as much but that is just because of social media. I’m currently working on a monosteel bowie (see attachment) and have been incorporating some new hammering techniques that I recently learned. It’s exciting to keep improving those skills, along with refining my fit and finish techniques. I also want to make sure to avoid the rabbit hole of fads. 

To be honest one of the biggest goals I have is to work on my skills for the Journeyman smith test. I still haven't forged a blade longer than 6 inches so I have a long way to go and I figure the next 2 years I have to wait will be good for me to improve those skills.

 
Posted : 08/01/2025 12:18 pm
Posts: 5
Active Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

I mean it feels like not that I feel it isn't as impressive. Fat fingered that response.

 
Posted : 08/01/2025 12:20 pm
Joshua C States
Posts: 367
Reputable Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Posted by: Ryan McHargue

To be honest one of the biggest goals I have is to work on my skills for the Journeyman smith test. 

 

A worthy goal and one that will test you and your skills in ways you cannot imagine only 6 months into the craft.
Attaining the JS IMNSHO is about control over your process.

 In my book on craftsmanship, that translates to "doing what you intend to do." For me, life is all about focusing your intent. In knifemaking (or any other art or tradecraft) this means design first, build second. This is the foundation of Journeyman level in any tradecraft. Can you focus your intent on a specific design and then execute that design in physical form?

Looking at the ABS guide to Journeyman testing, you find these words: 

exhibit a level of fit, finish and design that is among the best in the world.

Failure to focus on design leads to organic development, and it shows in the final product. Focus on design leads to intentional processes and that also shows in the finished product.

Do you design before you forge, or do you start with a mental concept and design at the anvil?

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 10/01/2025 10:22 am
Posts: 5
Active Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Up until now I have had an idea in my head but I would not say a focus on design. But I will work on that as my next skill.

 
Posted : 10/01/2025 12:00 pm
Share: