Hello Everybody!
I am working on a knife that has been giving me a fit, which has led me to ask this question: Has anyone else had any issues with defective steel? I am using known, high quality 1084 steel from a respected source. After forging the knife & during the rough grinding stage I found what I would call "spidering" beneath the surface of the steel---actual gaps & grooves that got worse the deeper I ground. This was in the ricasso and I had not hit the ricasso at all while forging. My gut reaction was that the steel had a defect in it. I was able to grind away the issue, but now find other smaller inclusions or fissures that are appearing during etching and polishing. I'm fairly certain that I was careful during forging, etc., and didn't create this because when attempting to sand the problem areas, they actually get larger or open-up more, as if they are inside the steel. Has anyone else ever run into this?
Ed C.
Ed,
Back when I started I bought 2 approx 18' lengths of 1070-80 steel from what I called a respectable source then. It had that same problem. While I was at my Intro class I had in my notes another source that was given to me in case I needed it. As I had not tried any of the the steel I got I did not know it was bad yet. I now get 1084 from a source in NJ. It has all been good. They have been out of it for months. A fairy just told me they should have some in by mid March.
I have gotten spider lines on a piece I over heated but, that was caused by me talking and explaining what I was doing instead of keeping my mind on the process
I have slowly been cutting up the old stuff and may try to smelt it.
George,
Thanks. I have gotten all of my steel from (more than likely) the same source in NJ as you. I'm pretty sure I didn't overheat it, & the strange thing was that it was below the surface. The surface looked normal, but with a little grinding, the issue started to rear it's ugly head. Now that I'm polishing the blade to reveal the hamon, I can see a small 3/16" long fissure in the steel (surface is smooth). Weird...and frustrating 😞
Ed, give him a call and explain the situation. He will want to know. There was some 5160 floating around a few years ago that had issues like that. You would get to 220 or 320 with hand rubbing and start getting pits snd streaks. Also get an unforged piece and grind it and see what comes up, that should tell you if it is the steel.
Brion
Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
ABS Mastersmith
I had some ATS34 one time that had inclusions in it from the foundry. They didn't show up until abut 220 grit, but then they showed worse and worse as I got finer.
Thanks guys! It's good to know I'm not nuts <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//blink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> (Well...)
Brion, that's a good idea...I'll try it and see what I get <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//rolleyes.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
Hey Ed its not a new thing. Over thirty years of machining I've run into lots of bars with lamination in the steel. 1200 lb. gibs for stamping presses and you're down to the final grinding when they show up tends to aggravate you more then other less significant parts but they are common and its like winning the lottery, you never know when your number is going to come up.
Ed;
A double blind test. Grind or hand sand an unforged bar clean to 320 or so on one end and look it over. Etch it lightly, look for the issues; closely.
Then heat treat and quench the bar as normal. Clean and look it over. Whether the flaws are there now; or not; will give you a pretty much locked down idea of the origins of the problem.
I am wrestling with some problems with some supposed to be W1.
Without a lot of forging grinding the above will only take a few minutes.
Mike
Mike Williams
Master Smith
Thanks Paul & Mike!
