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Basic Shop Equipment

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BrionTomberlin
Posts: 1675
Member
Topic starter
 

This months topic concerns basic shop equipment, thank you Gary. For those just starting out, what type of equipment is essential to a bladesmithing shop? We can also discuss brands to get and places to find it. So lets hear what everyone thinks is needed in a smithing shop.

I will start with some type of anvil. I know with the Forged in Fire show used anvil prices have gotten a bit out of hand. They can still be found but you have to look and put out feelers. Tell everyone you know that you are looking for an anvil. Go to farm auctions and sales. They are out there. Look for brands like Trenton, Peter Wright, Arm and Hammer, Vulcan, etc. There are also new options, like Nimba, Emerson, Kohlswa, and NC Tool, to mention a few. All these do require an investment, but a good one will last pretty much forever. You can also use a piece of rail road rail. It will work and I have seen some nice looking anvils made from rail. For anvils I would look for at least 100 lbs. For me, it seems like the heavier the anvil the easier it is to move metal. You will also need a good anvil stand. Some use stumps, some use pre made metal stands. My stands were made from 2x12's cut to two foot lengths then stacked and screwed together with deck screws. That is anvil basics. We can add more as we go.

So, if you are starting out lets hear your questions. And for us old timers, lets hear your suggestions.

Brion

Brion Tomberlin

Anvil Top Custom Knives

ABS Mastersmith

 
Posted : 02/04/2018 8:33 pm
cal harkins
Posts: 69
Member
 

A good grinder is fairly necessary. Harry and I built some grinders but unless you have a lot of metal working skill it would probably be best to buy one. We have a KMG 2 x 72 grinder from Beaumont metal works that is a great grinder and available at a decent price. The KMG will track accurately and that is really important. You can get by with just a flat platen and add other wheels later. I first started with a 1 x 30 small grinder but it didn't last a month. I think it was a waste of money.

 
Posted : 02/04/2018 9:12 pm
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

Fire extinguishers. I have 3 in my shop.

Files. Lots of them in a wide variety of shapes cuts and sizes.

Vices. A Post vice and several bench vices. I have 3 bench vices, one on top of the bench, one fastened to the front of the bench and one fastened to a log stood on end. I also have some smaller Pana vices for handle work.

Brion opened up the anvil subject, and I'd like to expand upon that especially the part about how difficult it is to find a decent used anvil and how expensive it is to buy a new one. For many folks just starting out, the anvil becomes a show stopper and it really shouldn't be. The truth be told, you really don't "need" a traditional blacksmith's anvil to make blades. I do have a 200 pound Peter Wright, but my wife uses it more than I do. This is my primary knife making anvil. It's a piece of chrome-moly that I picked up from someone who had a couple of them sitting in his yard that he wanted to get rid of. That was very lucky, yes. It measures 3" x 9" x 30" and I welded some heavy angles that I got from a scrapyard to make the base.

A lot of smiths I know (including Geoff Keyes) use and recommend this anvil for beginners: https://www.oldworldanvils.com/4-x-4-anvil (My link)

They even sell one with a stake on the bottom to make setting it in a stump or wood block for $40 more. Personally, I would forego the stake and just chisel out a depression for the anvil to set into.

An anvil stand can be easily made from some 2x10 or 2x12 as Brion suggested. If you offset the individual pieces by 1 or 2 inches, you can add a flat strap and have a handy hammer and tong holder.

One of these and the Old World 4x4 anvil and you can be forging away for about $200. (You can see the chiseled out indentation I am referring to above)

My Peter Wright sits on a wooden box made out of 2x6 boards, a plywood bottom, filled with sand and a plywood top for the anvil to sit on.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 12:28 am
Posts: 65
Trusted Member Journeyman Bladesmith (5yr)
 

Lighting is also a very important thing to have in your shop. Good lighting around your grinder will help get your blade back on the grinder at the same place after a cooling dunk. It will also let you see the little j hooks and other scratches when finishing a blade or guard. I also have an optivisor and a magnifying glass on the work bench because as time passes my arms keep getting shorter. Anything that allows you to see your work will be a great benefit in the quality of work that leaves your shop.

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 6:34 am
Karl B. Andersen
Posts: 1067
Member
 

This topic, alone, could become an incredibly valuable resource for up and coming knife makers.

To come at it from a different angle - and I hope I don't get chastised - I will share a bit of tongue-in-cheek caution given to me almost from day one:

"Knife making is a life-time of buying tools. Then you die."

That said, probably the single most important piece of equipment to invest in from the get-go would be a variable speed grinder - with a lot of emphasis on "variable speed".

Then start adding from there as experience and knife design evolves.

The next thing I got was an oven.

Then a mill.

Then a lathe.

Then another mill.

Variable speed disc sander.

Surface grinder.

Etc.

The enormous volume of tooling for folders, daggers, wire inlay, files, various vices, clamps, bits, reamers, etc. is mind numbing.

It's a given you're going to need a drill press/presses.

Yep - tongs, anvil(s), hammers, etc.

And of course, power hammers, hydraulic press.

Having built houses and professional shop work the majority of my 64 years I learned to buy good stuff. Just like in my hunting, fishing, canoeing, camping, etc. Buy tools that will last and you can use day in and day out, season after season, year after year. Get quality tools.

Take on new projects and then find out what you don't know and get what you don't have.

And get something you'll still have the next time you need it.

Karl B. Andersen

Journeyman Smith

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 7:10 am
Karl B. Andersen
Posts: 1067
Member
 

I have a local farm store that just started carrying these 4 foot LED lights. 24 dollars each.

I just put two over my work bench and it changed my life.

They even have outlets on the ends so you can hook them together like Christmas tree lights!

Karl B. Andersen

Journeyman Smith

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 7:12 am
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 749
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

I'm going to break my response down into 2 areas.... the "Forging" area, and the "Finishing" area.

Forging area: The two most important tools in this area are obviously the Forge, and the anvil. Neither is much good without the other. The anvil can be a "make shift" tool, meaning that as necessity dictates, an individual can use any large chunk of steel, however, a real anvil is the best option.

Forge: This is the part that concerns me with the current "FIF Era"..... People have burned down city blocks, and who knows what else because they have no clue about what they are doing, or the dangers they are dealing with. If folks were to take a little time and look around, they would find that the vast majority of experienced Bladesmiths own/use a forge that is very simple in design, with a minimal of parts and pieces, which tends to be effective and trouble free. Personally, I spend a great deal of time trying to help folks who are attempting to build a forge.... and it gets very frustrating when I give specifics for components they should use, then I get an email or phone call saying whatever they built "doesn't work".... and then get... "I couldn't find the sizes you said, so I went with XXXX"...... DUH! And they can't understand why their forge doesn't work. If you have no knowledge or experience building a forge, then either seek out knowledge, and listen to it, or buy a ready made forge!

In the finish shop: Without a doubt, the most important tool is a GOOD grinder....preferably a "top end" 2 x 72" machine. Of course these machines are expensive, but NOTHING will be a better investment, nor is there any other tool that will improve your knives quicker. Now, let's address the "It's too expensive, I'll build one myself" crowd. IF you have the fabrication skills, and the tools to make it happen, then by all means do so. The problem is that most who are just starting out far overestimate their fabrication skills, and they build something that simply doesn't work, and they spend all their time/energy trying to make something work...that never will. Time and time again over the years I've seen the scenario.... buy a cheap grinder, find that it doesn't work, then spend a bit more on an "upgrade" that doesn't work either, and so on until the individual(s) finally relent and end up buying one of the "top end" grinders. Trouble is, by the time they come full circle, they've already spent enough money to purchase 2-3 "top end" grinders. Another thing that is often ignored is the fact that if you build your own grinder, that money is GONE. Resale value for a "homemade" grinder is zero. On the other hand, if a person invests in one of the "top end" grinders, and down the road decide they want to sell it, they will generally get nearly what they paid for it.

Other tools in the finishing area are many, but those that come to my mind are a quality vise, or two, or three. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> A quality drill press, and an array of hand tools.

I'm also going to open a can or worms by speaking to adhesives. Some have heard my tale of how the adhesives that I used in my early days caused me a lot of grief, namely off the shelf, commonly available 2-part epoxy. About 5 years after I started selling my knives, I had a significant number of returns with "loose" handles. Long story short, after a LOT of research on my part, I made some startling discoveries about 2-part epoxies, which lead me to go to a specific brand/type of adhesive, and make it a point to warn other off of the majority of commercially available 2-part epoxies. In the case of adhesives, what you don't know WILL hurt you, so whatever you use for adhesives, pay close attention to "shelf life" and more importantly, "hold life".

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 8:38 am
Posts: 134
Estimable Member Apprentice Bladesmith
 

Opti visor I have #3 lens besides light these really help to get things accurate. Sandpaper I like rhino redline (150 to 500) mostly and silicone carbide above 500 grit right now I'm trying out 220 and 320 carbide I like the 320,below 150 I use a variety of paper I just picked up some 80 grit at Home depot it's pretty good some sort of cubitron. Different ways to mark things I have several scratch awls,my brother found me a few,one was fine tipped and another had a flat triangular tip,I also have a silver streak from fastenal kind of like a smaller silver soapstone.

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 8:42 am
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

|quoted:

I will share a bit of tongue-in-cheek caution given to me almost from day one:"Knife making is a life-time of buying tools. Then you die."That said, probably the single most important piece of equipment to invest in from the get-go would be a variable speed grinder - with a lot of emphasis on "variable speed".Then start adding from there as experience and knife design evolves.The next thing I got was an oven. Then a mill.Then a lathe.Then another mill.Variable speed disc sander.Surface grinder.Etc.The enormous volume of tooling for folders, daggers, wire inlay, files, various vices, clamps, bits, reamers, etc. is mind numbing.It's a given you're going to need a drill press/presses.Yep - tongs, anvil(s), hammers, etc.And of course, power hammers, hydraulic press.

That bit from Karl made me think of a poster I have.

Attached files

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 12:40 pm
Posts: 22
Member
 

Thanks for the great topic. I'm still a noob when it comes to knife making, but over the last 2 years invested in good tools. A nice drill press, mill, lathe, converted porta band, a #126 Hay Budden anvil, and a 3 speed KMG (my only regretted tool purchase). The things that I neglected are the small tools chasing the fancy tools that I could live without. So my question is what small tools do you feel necessary to have? 123 blocks, dremel, or foredom etc.?

What type of forge do you recommend to start out with? The one I made to start out with was sketchy and damaged in my recent move.

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 8:17 pm
Posts: 775
Noble Member Apprentice Bladesmith
 

Something that hasn't been pointed out here is a good heavy duty vice. Though they aren't cheap anymore, a post vice is what I would recommend. Anywhere from a four to six inch vice will work.

Another tool that hasn't been talked about yet is a side or angle grinder. I use mine often especially for removing scale. If you try to remove scale with your belt grinder, you will wear out your belts rapidly as scale is too hard for belt grinding.

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 8:45 pm
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

|quoted:

What type of forge do you recommend to start out with? The one I made to start out with was sketchy and damaged in my recent move.

Do you want to buy one, or make one? The NC Tools line of off=the=shelf forges work pretty well. We have a Whisper Daddy 3-burner (I bought it for my wife for her birthday a few years back) and it's a good forge for general forging. I built a blown burner for my welding forge and I have a quick and easy way to adjust the temp down for general forging heat. Ed Caffrey has some very comprehensive forge build WIP threads here somewhere. I made the John Emmerling ribbon burner. It's about 12 inches long with 24 holes each 1/4" diameter. I have the instructions, but the file is 1.9MB and too large to post here. You can download them here: http://waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/uploads/Ribbon_Forge_Burner.pdf. You can get the castable refractory from: http://www.hightemptools.com/supplies.html

Why do you regret the KMG? It's a great grinder and you can always upgrade the drive to variable speed.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 11:26 pm
Joshua States
Posts: 1157
Member
 

|quoted:

Something that hasn't been pointed out here is a good heavy duty vice. Though they aren't cheap anymore, a post vice is what I would recommend. Anywhere from a four to six inch vice will work.

I did mention vices in a post above. A post vice is a "must have" in any blacksmith or knife maker's shop. Hit the local blacksmith's groups. There are always a few for sale in the tailgating areas. I also have 3 bench vices in different mountings. One on top of the bench, one on the face of the bench, and one on a log stood up on end. The last one I made a set of copper jaws for out of 3/8" x 1" copper bars. This I use to straighten after quenching. Works like a charm. I also have a couple of small Panavices for handle work. This one My link is my latest tool purchase and it made the carving detail work on my Seax possible.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 11:37 pm
Posts: 22
Member
 

|quoted:

Do you want to buy one, or make one? The NC Tools line of off=the=shelf forges work pretty well. We have a Whisper Daddy 3-burner (I bought it for my wife for her birthday a few years back) and it's a good forge for general forging. I built a blown burner for my welding forge and I have a quick and easy way to adjust the temp down for general forging heat. Ed Caffrey has some very comprehensive forge build WIP threads here somewhere. I made the John Emmerling ribbon burner. It's about 12 inches long with 24 holes each 1/4" diameter. I have the instructions, but the file is 1.9MB and too large to post here. You can download them here: http://waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/uploads/Ribbon_Forge_Burner.pdf. You can get the castable refractory from: http://www.hightemptools.com/supplies.html

Why do you regret the KMG? It's a great grinder and you can always upgrade the drive to variable speed.

Thank you for replying. At first my thoughts were buying a forge. Then after thinking about and talking with Ed Caffery, I have decided build. The only forge Ed recommended is over $1000. The internet has loads of information, but knowing what is good and is bad lead to the poor design on my first forge. The KMG story is long and boring. When the funds are available I'll be upgrading to TW-90.

 
Posted : 04/04/2018 5:47 am
Posts: 13
Active Member Apprentice Bladesmith (5yr)
 

The two most mind blowing simple additions to my shop that increased my quality control quite a bit were a surface plate, and PSA sticky back sand paper for hand sanding. A lot of time i spent wishing i had this or that tool but in reality I just needed to figure out how to better use the tools that i did have! For the longest time i struggled with flat and true but sticky sandpaper on a surface plate = win! The surface plate also aids in seeing how straight your blades/scales etc are and can be used to scribe center lines with an inexpensive height gauge!

 
Posted : 04/04/2018 12:56 pm
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