Hello Jeremy,

This happens to me all the time and can't remember exactly where i picked this particular fix up, but it works for me so share and share alike. Once I've established that my edge is in fact off center, i take it up to forging heat and then lay the blade on the anvil pushed right snug up against the plunge with the high side of the ricasso facing up, and with a flat faced hammer just stroke the ricasso itself back to center instead of trying to bring the edge to the ricasso. Depending on where I'm at with forging or how close to final thicknessI'm trying to forge, maybe i don't want to chance an errant hammer blow, i give her a spank with my lead core wooden mallet and all is well in the world again. And there sometimes there's just nothing for it but to heat her up, crank the spine in the vice and sight down the edge and push or pull it straight as needed with your crescent wrench.

I hope any of this helps. Until i can, like you say forge well enough to not need to correct a wandering edge. I suppose I'll just keep using these methods. They've served me well so far. Take care.

Jesse.

I literally just slapped myself in the head while reading your post. I always had a hard time messing up the ricasso (getting things out of square) by hammering on it, so I went to doing everything I could to leave it alone. It didn't even cross my mind to try hammering just enough like you suggested. I have a post vise I put some angle iron jaws on, too. The wrench idea while in the vise is another good one. Thanks very much for the help <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.

Jeremy

Hey Jeremy. I think what you described first, what you were trying to do, is what's happening. Your hammer blow is just pushing the edge down flat against the anvil.

Jesse's methods should work well. Also, to fix it the way you've been doing it, rather than butt the ricasso up to the side of the anvil and hit the edge, lay the whole ricasso area up on the anvil face, keeping it flat, and carefully hit the edge in the plunge line/blade heel area, avoiding hitting the ricasso itself. This should re center your edge also.

This is something I commonly see in my classes and I would normally have my students correct it just as Jesse said.

As to what causes it, this is usually causes by one of two factors 1st as you state uneven forging personally I think the counting thing leafs to this more than helps prevent it. We all have a strong and weak side when forging, I think going by simple number of blows will increase the in the unevenness of forging as the strong side moves the volume farther with each blow.

The second thing that causes this is a change in the distance the blow lands from the eged of the anvil from side to side or a slight angle change to the blow from side to side.

MP

Check out this video right around the 3:25 mark.

Bob

[media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7prmcOj_0 [/media]

Your welcome Jeremy, i love having those head slapping moments. They always make me approach my next project with renewed vigor and enthusiasm where once i may have been frustrated.

John, that sounds like good fine tuning technique that i am definitely going to try on my next blade.

Jesse

You guys have the fix figured out. Good question and good response.

I will point out, Jeremy, that you did not mention re heating before you turned it over. If you work each side at an equal heat, there is more chance for it to stay even.

One other thing, try forging just a few blows on one side, then heat and forge the other side, again just a few blows. In other words, don't forge to your entire desired depth on one side and then try to do the same on the other all in one heat. It will always be off centered.

This is no big problem because you now have a way to fix it as mentioned above by Jesse. What I want you to do is to understand why it is happening in the first place whether you prevent it altogether or fix it after it happens.

Let's look at it this way. The blade is hot and you're about to forge the plunge and the choil. You say, you're tilting the blade and attempting to draw down the choil, right? OK, your hand hammer is moving more metal and in a downward direction than the anvil's rebound, no matter how good an anvil it is. It's now out of center. Tilting wont do much to keep it centered in relation to the ricasso unless you are "fair" to both sides.

Alternating a few blows on each side at the same heat, will do better. There will always be some centering to do. I read what John said and totally agree.

You guys are fantastic. And John, there was another "duh" moment... I recently read something about common sense not being flower that blooms in every garden. I may just be one of those sparse gardens <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />. I can't believe I didn't think of just moving the ricasso up onto the anvil so it wouldn't twist and the edge would get put back to center.

And thanks also Matthew and Lin for the information on how I'm getting it off center in the first place. Bob, I'll have to check out that video in a bit, thanks for the link.

Next blades I forge-goal is to forge more carefully and see about avoiding the problem altogether. And if that doesn't work out, I now have some great things to try to get it fixed. I love this forum.... <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Jeremy

I'm with Lin Rhea- keep flipping it and try not to favor one side or the other. Try different parts of the anvil, try standing on the other side from what you're used to and maybe working off the edge by the cutoff table. If you're using a cross pien try a straight or diagonal peen. I try to let the metal guide me and not get too attached to a certain sequence of blows, or ALWAYS working one side before the other.

It's good that you're aware that you do that, that means you're watching yourself, what you do.

Jeremy said:

"Common sense tells me if I heat it up and put the side that's too far over up, push the plunge into the anvil edge on the opposite side and lift the blade edge off the anvil when I hammer, that ought to do it, pushing the edge back towards center."

I think the problem is that you are tilting the wrong part of the blade upward. When I forge, I start with the ricasso area and set the plunge cut on one side. This makes a sort of chisel shaped cross section. One side is more beveled than the other side and the edge is starting to pull down. I then reheat and flip the blade over and lay the bevel flat on the anvil face so the spine is slightly lifted off the anvil. With the plunge cut up against the anvil edge, you cannot move the blade edge over to the other face again because part of the ricasso face is below the anvil top. Every hit will force steel on the upper face to move, and it will move toward the edge (if you hold the hammer correctly and guide it there) creating a new plunge line and a beveled face on the second side.

Give it a few hits to start the bevel and check center. Repeat until the edge is centered. Continue forging out the entire edge in this manner, with the bevels flat on the anvil. Work in small sections alternating sides up the blade to the point.

Tweaking the ricasso will put a twist in the blade (however minor)that you will have to take out eventually, (probably through grinding) and the spot where the edge joins the ricasso will still be off center. I think it's much better to get the edge centered while forging.

And then I'm going to jump in with something entirely different. Uh-oh.

I think of a blacksmith. A real black smith.

He had every tool in his shop that he could possibly use. And he didn't do everything with a hammer.

That's a bunch of fool hardy thinking.

Now, don't get me wrong - I try to forge everything I can so as to make things logical and fit, etc. But my hammer isn't my only tool.

If I have something that is fighting me - I fight back.

I'll stick a blade with an off-center edge spine down in my BLACKSMITH leg vise and either bend or knock the edge to center.

That's what a black smith would have done.

I use all the tools at my disposal.

This is a very good point Karl. Every smith has a variety of tools available, and sometimes you make the ones you can't get.

When I started to forge knives, I didn't have the skill level to get the plunge cuts even and the edge centered with a hammer and anvil. So, I made a little spring swage to set the plunge cuts. I'll see if I can dig it up, and take a photo. It's been a while since I used it. It basically had an upper and lower die made from roughly 1 inch square tool steel. The contact faces were beveled slightly, rounded a little, and smooth. The upper piston used a piece of music wire for the spring. I could set the blade on the lower die and hammer the upper die. This would start my plunge cuts evenly on both sides of the knife. I could then use it to start the bevels along the edge, if I wanted or to smooth out the hammer marks. I would practice my hammer technique on mild steel scrap pieces until I got good enough to stop using the jig I made.

OK, I found it. Luckily enough my wife has taken the initiative and collected all of the Hardy tools we have and put them in one place. Unluckily though, the top die is nowhere to be found. Anyway, I think you get the idea. The top die slid into the upper tube. The music wire spring set in a hole in the side of the die and another hole in the top of the frame. It was set to be roughly 3/8-1/2 inch above the bottom die. The back end of the plate has a 1 inch post to fit in the Hardy hole.

Thank you, Joshua.

I am a really big fan of using all the tools at my disposal.

If you walked into a blacksmith shop 150 years ago, you would no doubt be astounded at the piles and shelves full of tools to help him do his job.

If he didn't - he wouldn't be in business.

This business of making knives can be approached from many different angles.