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Observations On Hand Finishing Using Stones

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Posts: 296
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I recently started doing hand polishing and love starting with stones so this lowly apprentice thought he would share some insights he has gleaned on doing stone polish.

a bit of background first I and am frugal about consumables like grinder belts and sandpaper so I like to make them last as long as I can. I cut 1/2 inch squares off the paper and polish by putting the paper to the blade instead of the blade to the paper. given I was consuming a lot of 120 grit sandpaper I decided to try some cheap7.99 stones. well, they clogged and required dressing I liked that I could do a lot of movement without the need to cut a new piece of paper, after using up the 120 gritstone I decided to try a relatively expensive edge pro stone and got hooked as it did not clog on me so long as I kept it wet with water. so I got more edge pro and a King 800 grit to 1000 grit high-end stones. so you do get what you pay for when it comes to using stones. however, I then started having issues with breaking down the stone do to much pressure being used on the stones, so unlike with sandpaper you do not want to muscle a stone you want to let the tool do the work only applying light presser. not sure if it's necessary with sandpaper but I like to employ a modified Japanese technique of changing the direction of the polish with each stone. a professional Japanese polisher will switch direction by a quarter turn however you can not do this with a blade with a plunge cut which Japanese swords do not have. however, I find you can do the same thing by switching from tang to tip with one stone then to spine to edge, then tang to tip again repeating as you go. also if you have a nice bright light shining down onto the blade as you polish you can see when all the marks are mostly gone.

once I get to 1000 grit I switch to sandpaper and like to start at 800 grit instead of 1000 or 1200 as stones do cut deeper then sandpaper so its better to go down a grit instead of up. however, I also keep up the switching of directions with the sandpaper. However, I also prefer to do tang to tip for the final polish as I find this direction is more pleasing to the eye then the spine to edge polish.

I would share a picture of a beautiful polish however I am still learning hand polishing so I do not have a scratch-free high polish blade yet. however, I can share a picture of the blade I am currently polishing up which shows the difference the polish direction makes and a shot of my jig. I happened to have 3 of these little vices and the weight of two on the back I feel helps with stability a bit.

(I learned what I know of the techniques of Japanese polishers from this book: The Craft of the Japanese Sword. https://smile.amazon...?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

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Posted : 02/02/2020 3:11 pm
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However i just realised i can share a shot of the blade i am working on polishing up and a shot of my polishing jig and will edit the initial post with those in a bit.

 
Posted : 02/02/2020 3:19 pm
Kevin R. Cashen
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Obviously stones work best with water based fluids, but what do you prefer for paper, Kevin?

I have worked with both oil based and water based with paper and am now very fond of water based fluids for wet sanding. I normally only go to paper at 600X and above. I have bought 400X paper, or shop role in around 20 years. I can be quite frugal as well and I found that 200x and 400X grinding belts, when done on the grinder still cut very effectively when stripped into hand rolls. In fact I have found the backing of a belt to be so superior to the backing of rolls or paper that they cut better, even when too dull to use on the grinder. This also helps with belt discipline, for if the belt is too dull to use in hand finishing, it was WAY too dull to still be used on the grinder and all you were probably doing was messing up your lines.

"One test is worth 1000 'expert' opinions" Riehle Testing Machines Co.

 
Posted : 03/02/2020 1:34 pm
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|quoted:

Obviously stones work best with water based fluids, but what do you prefer for paper, Kevin?

I have worked with both oil based and water based with paper and am now very fond of water based fluids for wet sanding. I normally only go to paper at 600X and above. I have bought 400X paper, or shop role in around 20 years. I can be quite frugal as well and I found that 200x and 400X grinding belts, when done on the grinder still cut very effectively when stripped into hand rolls. In fact I have found the backing of a belt to be so superior to the backing of rolls or paper that they cut better, even when too dull to use on the grinder. This also helps with belt discipline, for if the belt is too dull to use in hand finishing, it was WAY too dull to still be used on the grinder and all you were probably doing was messing up your lines.

I have tried oil stones and I really do not like using them as the oil builds up a thick film/gooey substance that has to be cleaned often in order to see what your polishing and I am using Norton abrasives sharpening stone oil. so I just stick to tap water for the sandpaper as well as for the stones. the jig I use does not allow the water to pool under the blade. also, I keep a dish of water on a tray in a square tupaware bowl (to prevent spilling as I polish sitting on my bed) and dip the paper or stone in the water often as it helps prevent clogging and as a result, I do not have a lot of water on the blade. however, it likely helps that I developed the habit of constantly wiping the blade off with a cloth as steel dust builds up on the blade which means the water I am using does not stay on it very long and if I have to use the restroom or something I dry the blade before I step away from it. I actually never considered using oil with paper as i do not like the idea of spraying wd40 indoors and had misplaced my Norton sharpening stone oil. plus if you're using oil to polish when your done polishing you're left with a lot of highly flammable oil-soaked paper.

I will have to try out that as I have some 800 grit belts I am not using right now since I am in a skill-building phase of hand polish and what to do it as much as possible...and I ran out of high grit belts between 180 to 800 and just have not bothered to order more.

 
Posted : 03/02/2020 3:15 pm
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PS: I do use a coating of dykem red layout fluid between 120 and 180 as the fluid seeps into the scratches left by the 120 so i can see them easier in the darkness of my shop after it dries. I chose red over blue because amazon had it in red and i wanted to be different =).

 
Posted : 03/02/2020 3:34 pm
Kevin R. Cashen
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|quoted:

PS: I do use a coating of dykem red layout fluid between 120 and 180 as the fluid seeps into the scratches left by the 120 so i can see them easier in the darkness of my shop after it dries. I chose red over blue because amazon had it in red and i wanted to be different =).

I keep a tube of spent FeCl next to my grinder for the same reason. Dipping in FeCl between grits darkens the scratches and makes them easier to see. I used to use oil based wet sanding to avoid rust, but the horrible mess was awful. Oil, like WD40, mixers with the iron dust to make a miserable black ink that ruins clothes and doesn't wash out, plus the lubricating action lessens the effectiveness of the cut. I switched to water based cutting fluids, with rust inhibitive additives, and have been happier ever since.

"One test is worth 1000 'expert' opinions" Riehle Testing Machines Co.

 
Posted : 04/02/2020 11:59 am
Karl B. Andersen
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|quoted:

I keep a tube of spent FeCl next to my grinder for the same reason. Dipping in FeCl between grits darkens the scratches and makes them easier to see. I used to use oil based wet sanding to avoid rust, but the horrible mess was awful. Oil, like WD40, mixers with the iron dust to make a miserable black ink that ruins clothes and doesn't wash out, plus the lubricating action lessens the effectiveness of the cut. I switch to water based cutting fluids, with rust inhibitive additives, and have been happier ever since.

I use a spray bottle of diluted Simple Green when sanding so I can wash my hands at the same time!

Karl B. Andersen

Journeyman Smith

 
Posted : 04/02/2020 1:45 pm
Kevin R. Cashen
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|quoted:

I use a spray bottle of diluted Simple Green when sanding so I can wash my hands at the same time!

I started with Formula 409, but since started mixing my own, water, alcohol, TSP, ammonia and few other things, or simply altering the ratios for the stuff I buy for my machining and metallography saw. I tried simple green once, I never much liked it for cutting fluid or even cleaning, and it has an odd smell that I find unpleasant.

"One test is worth 1000 'expert' opinions" Riehle Testing Machines Co.

 
Posted : 04/02/2020 5:38 pm
Joshua States
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|quoted:

I use a spray bottle of diluted Simple Green when sanding so I can wash my hands at the same time!

I use the Simple Green for wet sanding on the granite slab for guards and other fittings. For hand sanding the blade, I use that Orange/citrus degreaser fluid. It's a little more viscous than Simple Green, cleans everything, and smells better too.

I used to use those mylar backed belts by 3M for my hand sanding, and still do from time to time. Like Kevin C. said, the backing is very strong and the mylar ones are extremely thin. So if you want to get a bevel really flat, use a stiff sanding stick and a mylar belt. 3M makes them in what they call Micron Finishing belts. 60 micron= about 220, 40mic= about 320, 30 mic = about 400, etc. all the way up to 9 mic which is somewhere around 1800 I think.

Joshua States

www.dosgatosforge.com

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Also on Instagram and Facebook as J.States Bladesmith

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

 
Posted : 04/02/2020 11:20 pm
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ill keep the suggestions in mind however, if I run into rusting issues I may have to try my Pink soap brush cleaner soap first as it removes thinks like oil base paint and i do not like the feel things like degreaser on my skin.

 
Posted : 05/02/2020 2:19 pm
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