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Grinding: Vertical Vs Horizontal?

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I see almost every smith using a vertical grinding technique instead of a horizontal one. I personal prefer using the horizontal position of my sander incited of the vertical as i was tought to use this form of sanding well i was in wood shop and i find it a bit safer. because if my grinder grabs my blade it will send the blade away from me instead of sending it at my face.

so i am wondering if there is any advantage to the position of a vertical grinder?

 
Posted : 15/05/2017 1:29 pm
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I personally haven't seen any grinders I'd really consider to be up to blade grinding that can be operated horizontally. The other issue that comes to mind for me would be applying enough pressure to the blade for effective grinding. I've got a 2x72 with a 1.5hp motor, and I'll regularly trip a 15 amp breaker when I'm roughing out a bunch of blades. And I'm not that heavy handed with the grinder compared to some guys.

Now of course having learned on a more typical grinder, going to something else would be awkward as well, but I'm sure that could be overcame with practice. It's more issues of grinder design and applying pressure that comes to mind for me.

That said enough grinding has been done on stone wheel grinders of that configuration over the years, I'm sure it would work well enough with the right grinder.

I'm not sure if that was any real help, but it's about everything that comes to mind. I think it mostly comes down to the way most current makers grind, and pretty well all of the suitable machines available being set up for vertical only.

 
Posted : 15/05/2017 6:03 pm
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|quoted:

I personally haven't seen any grinders I'd really consider to be up to blade grinding that can be operated horizontally. The other issue that comes to mind for me would be applying enough pressure to the blade for effective grinding. I've got a 2x72 with a 1.5hp motor, and I'll regularly trip a 15 amp breaker when I'm roughing out a bunch of blades. And I'm not that heavy handed with the grinder compared to some guys.

Now of course having learned on a more typical grinder, going to something else would be awkward as well, but I'm sure that could be overcame with practice. It's more issues of grinder design and applying pressure that comes to mind for me.

That said enough grinding has been done on stone wheel grinders of that configuration over the years, I'm sure it would work well enough with the right grinder.

I'm not sure if that was any real help, but it's about everything that comes to mind. I think it mostly comes down to the way most current makers grind, and pretty well all of the suitable machines available being set up for vertical only.

ya it helped. lets me know that i am not doing anything wrong by using my little 4x36 Wen belt sander set to the horizontal position. it may only have a 1/2 horse power motor but it works just fine for me and has a nice quick change function. I tend to grind well im waiting for my steel to heat up as i do not like just sitting around and waiting on steel to heat up. you may want to add a good surge protector to your grinder it may help with the circuit getting tripped.

 
Posted : 16/05/2017 6:29 pm
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I've got a surge protector on it, only because it's easier to reset that than to walk over to the panel. The real issue is that a 1.5hp motor draws 17 amps at full load, and it boarder line for a normal 15 amp circuit... Eventually I'll rewire it to 240, and it'll never slow down then

 
Posted : 16/05/2017 7:34 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 751
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

I suspect the main reason you prefer grinding in a horizontal position, is because that's what you know, and have learned on. Long ago, when I first started out, I had a 4x36 machine too, and until I got to use a grinder that was intended for steel/blades, I had no idea what I was missing. We all come at things through the lens of our own experiences.... but trust me, once you experience grinding on a 2x72 machine that's designed/built for grinding steel/blades, you're going to want one.

When it comes to vertical versus horizontal grinding, there's no contest. Although it's very much a learned skill, vertical grinding gives you far more access, control, and abilities then grinding in a horizontal fashion.

I started out with a Wilton Square wheel, with a 1hp motor, but it didn't take long to graduate to another machine with a 2hp motor. I now have a total of 3 grinders, all 2x72 machines, and have upgraded each with 3hp motors.

Probably the two biggest issues with machines that were designed for light duty/woodworking are 1. They lack the power necessary to effectively grind steel. 2. The belts that are available for said machines are designed/built for wood/soft materials, meaning that they simply do not perform well on steel.

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 17/05/2017 12:16 pm
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I started out on a 1x30 grinder and very quickly realized it wasn't enough for what I wanted to do, but was cheap enough to get me hooked. I then built a 2x72 and used a treadmill motor, and have been using it for the last year or so. It also quickly proved it wasn't enough for what I want to do as it is very under powered as I read time and time again. I am anxiously waiting for a VFD to show up at my office hopefully before I head home tomorrow so I can hook it up to a second 2x72 I just finished building with a 3hp 3phase motor.

I've used some horizontal sanders in my time working with wood, but find it much easier working on a vertical grinder, especially working with steel and making knives. Both of my 2x72's are built to rotate to horizontal. Not quite the same horizontal you're referring to but it makes it much easier for some tasks to see very well what I'm doing. I like to have versatility.

 
Posted : 18/05/2017 11:39 am
Posts: 296
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|quoted:

I suspect the main reason you prefer grinding in a horizontal position, is because that's what you know, and have learned on. Long ago, when I first started out, I had a 4x36 machine too, and until I got to use a grinder that was intended for steel/blades, I had no idea what I was missing. We all come at things through the lens of our own experiences.... but trust me, once you experience grinding on a 2x72 machine that's designed/built for grinding steel/blades, you're going to want one.

When it comes to vertical versus horizontal grinding, there's no contest. Although it's very much a learned skill, vertical grinding gives you far more access, control, and abilities then grinding in a horizontal fashion.

I started out with a Wilton Square wheel, with a 1hp motor, but it didn't take long to graduate to another machine with a 2hp motor. I now have a total of 3 grinders, all 2x72 machines, and have upgraded each with 3hp motors.

Probably the two biggest issues with machines that were designed for light duty/woodworking are 1. They lack the power necessary to effectively grind steel. 2. The belts that are available for said machines are designed/built for wood/soft materials, meaning that they simply do not perform well on steel.

Hmm well a vertical grinding on a faster machine is something i would rather try out first to see if it is all that before i switch to only vertical grinding, mainly cause well I am a bit clumsy at times and I do not want a blade shooting at my face if I lose my grip on it. I am using Zirconia Sanding Belts then for higher polishing I use silicon carbine belts up to 1000 grit. Considering the only belt i have had to replace of my original zerconia belts was the 40 grit after around 15 knifes so for now the little guy it works. However one of the big things with me using the 4x36 is the fact that well my work space is a detached garage and there is not all that much space do to there being several cubereds stored in it (long story i do not feel like sharing) and i do not like to feel really crowded when im working, so the little guy is fine for me for now. i actually have gone threw more gloves then i have grinding belts after i switched to the zirconia belts, as i am on my 3rd pair of work gloves. Hmm also another consideration is the fact that i live in a 100 year old house and well it has been refurbished, I only have one electrical socket in the garage and it gets very cold here in winter. I am dumb enough to work in -23 weather so I like the option of having a heater running and still being able to grind.

Slso thinking on it I would like to have a welder before I make a grinder frame, as i would not trust bolts with something that needs to hold up to the forces involved with running a grinder. I have the skills to make the thing just not the tools right now.

Hmm this got a bit rambly sorry.

 
Posted : 18/05/2017 3:09 pm
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