I finally convinced my mother (whom I rent a room and the garage from) to let me bolt down my anvil stand...I plan on using half-inch anchored bolts of some kind so I can move the stand for easier cleanup... Because I am currently just using what I have on hand, I think I will have to upgrade the mounting bracket I am making for it (and I need half an inch to mount my grinder stand). so i am looking for suggestions tips and the like.
Quick question is how big is your anvil? Second, how thick is the concrete(assuming it’s concrete). What does your stand look like currently/will you need to add clips or angle to be able to mount it.
I'm assuming you are doing this to keep it from bouncing when striking.
A 1/2” bolt in concrete has a very large tension capacity and you’d be more concerned with the capacity of the slab. A dampening pad between the stand and concrete helps to take some of this repeated striking potential damage away. The biggest issue I see with bolting to be movable though is you need to either provide a epoxied embed sleeve, or an epoxied threaded rod and lift onto the rods and tighten down. If you keep bolting into just concrete each time you do it the hole gets a little larger and pretty soon you get no bite at all. Embeds have a chance of filling up with debris and then ou can thread a bolt into them. Rod embedded in you have to lift over to be able to get the nut on the threads. You mentioned you want to be removable for cleaning, but I’m curious as to what you are achieving. If you want portability. A three leg stand heavily made with a dampening foot will self level and can take quite a beating.
Quick question is how big is your anvil? Second, how thick is the concrete(assuming it’s concrete). What does your stand look like currently/will you need to add clips or angle to be able to mount it.
(See the picture) I use a first run of the Atlas Anvil – 65 lbs for Knifemakers with a 55-pound bag of duck-tapped concrete. Here is my setup. Yes, I said I needed to add mounting brackets to it. 1/8th inch square tubing i had on hand in half and plan to use 2 3/16th inch bolts to attach them...because I have 3/16 inch bits and i dont have a very big budget.
sorry i have not slept much what i plan on using are called a wedge-anchor bolt. Here is what they look like (link) I literally will just have to unscrew a bolt to move it, or I have to make a taller stand if I ever buy a bigger anvil. My shop is a single-car garage. I don't have much room. I am getting 1/2 inch bolts because I already need 6 of them to mount the 2 grinder pedestals I have my belt sander and Bench grinder mounted to and its cheaper to buy one masonry bit, and a a box of 20 of these as i need around 14 as i am also bolting my post vise stand to the floor...along with the bolts. and some silicone to act as padding. And might upgrade my post-vise stand a bit.
Okay. The wedge will work and looking at the concrete it’s old and will have great compression strength, but just be aware concrete is good compression but weak in tension. The further you can bury those the better it will hold. Essentially a wedge anchor holds by pressing to the sides for its strength. Do not over torque otherwise it puts the upper above the wedge into tension with itself and you’ll pull it out with some concrete.
they aren’t really designed for repetitive disassembly and tightening but will work. just also know that if your stand isn’t fully supported and you are relying on your anchors to keep it tight to the floor, pounding on it is going to generate a bouncing lift force on them and like I said will rely on the tension strength of the concrete to hold it.
bouncing
If I understand right (and I likely am not, so, please correct me if I am wrong), The bounce on my stand is very slight, just enough that 50-100 hits move it maybe 4 inches(I have never actually paid attention to it). and it is likely not perfectly level due to my shop literally being a garage that is 100+ years old...and I don't know how thick the concrete is so i am just going with 4 inches.
if your stand isn’t fully supported
Please Define supported, as I don't want it tight to the ground I just don't want it to slide forward anymore.
Any movement of the anvil is essentially rebounding and lifting off the slab to move, and each “bounce” is essentially an uplift force putting the area above the bolts into tension when you have it bolted. When mentioning supported, I’m simply referring to if it is sitting with any rock to it, all points are not fully supported. That’s why you see so many three post stands. A three point contact will make contact with all three regardless of the floor irregularities. Four or flat bottom will rock.
thanks.It's also likely my stand is lightweight.
thanks taking that into consideration and some mistakes i made trying to get the alignment right i am going to mount the anvil with diffrent style screw and leave it perminant i am just glad i got my post vice mounted.
Ryan Lehbauer: thanks for the help. I over thought it, and I have it bolted down now. I switched from using the Ancor bolts to Tapcon+ 1/2 in. x 3 in. Heavy Duty Screw Anchors (USE THESE IF YOUR NEW AND BOLTING YOUR ANVIL STAND...OR OTHER THINGS DOWN. THEY ARE SO MUCH EASIER TO LINE UP!!!! However, 1/2 is likely overkill.) I just had to line them up with the brackets and then drill the hole. I also remembered I had some thicker mild steel I could make the brackets out of I chose to do it old and punched and drifted them to size...and I am glad I took the time. I will share another picture. I used probably 1/8th inch by 2 inch by 2 1/4th inch mild bent it 90 using my forge and post vise. I still have the bag of cement to add more weight.
The one bracket on the bottom was what I was going to use...and I changed it as I think it would have eventually just torn from the stress of using it. It was not all that thick.
Ryan Lehbauer: i want to make sure i said say thank you tip about anvil stands and a 3 leg point for stability. I could not employ it at this time since I would have had to build a completely new stand to take advantage of it, and I will be using it next time I build one.
thanks.It's also likely my stand is lightweight
That would be my first and only comment. The flat board you have the anvil sitting on is very wide and will flex and rebound more than you want from an anvil stand. Ideally, you want a solid mass below the anvil.
I made this anvil stand with integrated hammer holders for an anvil and now it holds our swage block. It's sections of 2x10 cut and nailed together with a 1.5" offset to create the hammer holders. I chseled out the depression to fit the anvil base.
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”
This is our primary anvil stand. It is 2x6 or 8 nailed together in a box with a plywood bottom. It is filled with sand vibrated to settle and another plywood piece is iset into the top. The anvil is held in place with wooden wedges. The tool racks are mild steel and screwed to the wood base.
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”
That would be my first and only comment. The flat board you have the anvil sitting on is very wide and will flex and rebound more than you want from an anvil stand. Ideally, you want a solid mass below the anvil.
Can I mitigate the rebound somewhat by adding two braces to the central support braces that go down farther instead of the sack of concrete?
Truth be told, you can try a bunch of stuff but why not just use a method that has been used by smiths for literally hundreds (if not thousands) of years?
The way to optimize the force your arm imparts to the steel through the hammer is to put the work between a rock and a hard place, a massive hard place that does not yield.
To put this in terms of the laws of physics it's this:
The force of the hammer goes into the steel and through it into the anvil and whatever is below. The more mass in that stuff below the anvil, the less that force can dissapate. The less it dissaptes, the more is absorbed by the steel.
It may not make much sense but think of it like playing pool. You hit the cue ball with a stick and that ball travels across a table until it reaches another object like another ball, or a bumper. The cue ball bounces off those objects because either they have basically the same mass (another ball) or they are pliable and can absorb most of the impact (the bumpers). Some of the force is reapplied back to the cue ball and it goes in another direction, but much slower than it was moving before the impact. Most of the force is absorbed by the object hit with the cue ball.
But what if the ball contacted a much larger ball? Say something 100 or 1000 times the mass of the cue ball. What would happen then? The force would be applied right back to the cue and it would probably shatter, or at least go right back at you.
So yes, you could put some legs under the table and they would take more force than they give back. That energy would dissapate through them rather than be reapplied back to the steel on the anvil.
“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”
