They all work basically about the same because they are vegetable/plant based oils who purposes are more attuned to use in the kitchen.

They will work as a last resort - in my book.

Their properties are designed to work at about 1000 degrees BELOW what you are expecting them to do.

It's possibly best to fully educate oneself on why we are quenching in the first place.

I have encountered two actual quench oils that were created with a vegetable oil base rather than a mineral oil. Houghton international offers an oil called Bio-Quench that I believe is canola oil based, and there is another oil out there, but I can’t find my literature on it, that is based on soy oil. Houghton’s literature compares the Bio-quench to their Houghto-quench G, which is a medium speed oil (good for 5160, 52100, O-1, L6 and other oil hardening alloy steels). The Soy oil would most definitely be a medium speed oil and not well suited for shallow hardening steels like 10xx series, 15n20, W-1, W2.

Canola is the oil that Houghton, and others, chose as a base to make into a quench oil because of studies that showed it to have the best cooling characteristics compared to other vegetable products (See G. Totten’s work on bioquenchants to read more). So of the ones listed the canola would have the best characteristics, peanut oil while having a higher flash point also has one of the slowest curves.

Unfortunately, a few bladesmiths have read Totten’s papers and somehow extrapolated that he suggested there was no difference between canola oil and an actual quench, which is not the case at all. Totten, and others, were looking for a vegetable based alternative from which to make actual quenching oil. Raw vegetable oil of any kind does not have the engineered cooling curves of an actual quenching oil and lacks the stability to provide consistent working life for repeated predictable heat treatments. So you can use canola oil and produce a couple of good blades with some increase risk of distortion due to the accelerated lower curve, but it will not give predictable results over time.

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I have encountered two actual quench oils that were created with a vegetable oil base rather than a mineral oil. Houghton international offers an oil called Bio-Quench that I believe is canola oil based, and there is another oil out there, but I can’t find my literature on it, that is based on soy oil. Houghton’s literature compares the Bio-quench to their Houghto-quench G, which is a medium speed oil (good for 5160, 52100, O-1, L6 and other oil hardening alloy steels). The Soy oil would most definitely be a medium speed oil and not well suited for shallow hardening steels like 10xx series, 15n20, W-1, W2.

Canola is the oil that Houghton, and others, chose as a base to make into a quench oil because of studies that showed it to have the best cooling characteristics compared to other vegetable products (See G. Totten’s work on bioquenchants to read more). So of the ones listed the canola would have the best characteristics, peanut oil while having a higher flash point also has one of the slowest curves.

Unfortunately, a few bladesmiths have read Totten’s papers and somehow extrapolated that he suggested there was no difference between canola oil and an actual quench, which is not the case at all. Totten, and others, were looking for a vegetable based alternative from which to make actual quenching oil. Raw vegetable oil of any kind does not have the engineered cooling curves of an actual quenching oil and lacks the stability to provide consistent working life for repeated predictable heat treatments. So you can use canola oil and produce a couple of good blades with some increase risk of distortion due to the accelerated lower curve, but it will not give predictable results over time.

I will look into that. i honestly prefer Green Oils over patrolling based ones, which i feel balances out my views on solar panels vs a nuclear reactor, as I prefer the latter.

edit: the other kind of oil is epoxidized soybean oil.

Ok, now I am wondering just what type of water (within reason) is best for a quench. I mean is it Distilled water, briny water, salt water, hard salt water, soft salt water ext. However, I say within reason do to the fact that i highly doubt I can get my hands irradiated water, along with heavy and light water cause you can do bad, bad things with these types of water... and I also do not fancy getting radiation sickness.

Yes I am crazy enough to do water quenches.

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They all work basically about the same because they are vegetable/plant based oils who purposes are more attuned to use in the kitchen.

They will work as a last resort - in my book.

Their properties are designed to work at about 1000 degrees BELOW what you are expecting them to do.

It's possibly best to fully educate oneself on why we are quenching in the first place.

we quench to make a blade hard, thus allowing it to hold a keen edge.

Kevin, for the steels we primarily use, 5160, 1084, W1, W2, 1095, etc. No water would be an optimal quenchant in knife blade thicknesses. Granted you could try heated water or brine, but you will have failures. The best quenchant for those steels is an engineered quenchant, such as parks 50 for W1, W2, 1095, and a slower quenchant like houghton G or AAA for 5160, 1084,80crv2. Yes they are more expensive, but they last longer and have very predictable results. You can use canola heated to 120-130. Water is not a good choice unless you have a lot of experience using it and use the right steel. You will still have failures though.

Brion

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Kevin, for the steels we primarily use, 5160, 1084, W1, W2, 1095, etc. No water would be an optimal quenchant in knife blade thicknesses. Granted you could try heated water or brine, but you will have failures. The best quenchant for those steels is an engineered quenchant, such as parks 50 for W1, W2, 1095, and a slower quenchant like houghton G or AAA for 5160, 1084,80crv2. Yes they are more expensive, but they last longer and have very predictable results. You can use canola heated to 120-130. Water is not a good choice unless you have a lot of experience using it and use the right steel. You will still have failures though.

Brion

Oh how i know what water can do to blades as i do it every few blades (however mostly only with my 5160 salvage steel) to get said experience. i have used brine water during the winter as well when it gets to -24 F even salt water freezes. ok i admit i have once tried a snow quench as i wanted to see if it worked as the original Conan the barbarian movie. I actually do not heat my oil unless im quenching more then one blade at a time. Not the best idea I know, But I feel you can get a bit more hardness out of the oil i use right now without heating it.

But I feel you can get a bit more hardness out of the oil i use right now without heating it.

In reality, the opposite is the case. Common logic might indicate that "cold" oil will cool better/more rapidly then "warm" oil, but that's not the case when it comes to quenching blades. When you introduce a piece of hot steel (say 1550F) into room temp oil, the hot steel causes the oil immediately surrounding the steel to "flash boil" creating a vapor pocket/barrier, that holds the heat in. By pre-heating those "natural" oils such as canola, peanut, mineral, etc. to approx. 130F, the vapor pocket/barrier does not form, and allows the steel to cool more rapidly then if the oil is at room temp and forms that "vapor pocket/barrier". There is a fairly narrow range for pre-heating quench oil... again, speaking to those "natural oils"....if the oil goes above approx. 180F when quenching, then in that situation the heat is not drawn off fast enough either.

At one point in my career I couldn't wrap my head around it either, but if you watch closely when quenching in room temp oil, you can actually see the vapor pocket immediately surrounding the steel. Likewise, if you watch closely when the oil is pre-heated, you can see that the vapor pocket does not form.

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In reality, the opposite is the case. Common logic might indicate that "cold" oil will cool better/more rapidly then "warm" oil, but that's not the case when it comes to quenching blades. When you introduce a piece of hot steel (say 1550F) into room temp oil, the hot steel causes the oil immediately surrounding the steel to "flash boil" creating a vapor pocket/barrier, that holds the heat in. By pre-heating those "natural" oils such as canola, peanut, mineral, etc. to approx. 130F, the vapor pocket/barrier does not form, and allows the steel to cool more rapidly then if the oil is at room temp and forms that "vapor pocket/barrier". There is a fairly narrow range for pre-heating quench oil... again, speaking to those "natural oils"....if the oil goes above approx. 180F when quenching, then in that situation the heat is not drawn off fast enough either.

At one point in my career I couldn't wrap my head around it either, but if you watch closely when quenching in room temp oil, you can actually see the vapor pocket immediately surrounding the steel. Likewise, if you watch closely when the oil is pre-heated, you can see that the vapor pocket does not form.

Very good points Ed. That is why I do not recommend quenching multiple blades in small quantities of oil. I know a lot of makers who use a 1-gallon bucket for their quench tub and try to quench 3 or 4 knives in it one after the other. I believe that the heat from the steel raises that small amount of oil into the "slow zone". My quench tub holds about 5 gallons of oil (currently there are about 3 gallons in it). Luckily enough for me, "room temperature" in my shop in the summer is somewhere around 105-110 degrees <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//blink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> So, getting it up to preheated temp is a simple matter.......I just put the tub outside in direct sunlight <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//laugh.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

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Very good points Ed. That is why I do not recommend quenching multiple blades in small quantities of oil. I know a lot of makers who use a 1-gallon bucket for their quench tub and try to quench 3 or 4 knives in it one after the other. I believe that the heat from the steel raises that small amount of oil into the "slow zone". My quench tub holds about 5 gallons of oil (currently there are about 3 gallons in it). Luckily enough for me, "room temperature" in my shop in the summer is somewhere around 105-110 degrees <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//blink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> So, getting it up to preheated temp is a simple matter.......I just put the tub outside in direct sunlight <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//laugh.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

I had the same idea as it can get that hot here. but its been a cool summer.

Om could i get a few Oil Names as i will be ordering online (likely amazon smile) and want to make sure i get the right product insted of guessing.

For Parks 50 or Parks AAA call Maxim Oil Company in Texas and ask for Carla is she doesn't answer. 817-293-4645

Can't help with Bio Quenchs.

quenching oils are sold/ marketed by the speed that they quench, how fast a quench you need is dictated by what steel you are using, ie 1075 w1 1084 - parks 50- 5160 O1 52100 AAA. the need quench speed can be found by looking up the alloy and finding you its requirements to fast a quench risks cracking or warping unnecessarily. this is one of the main reasons to use know steel so you can find this information out before destroying you work and wondering why.

MP

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For Parks 50 or Parks AAA call Maxim Oil Company in Texas and ask for Carla is she doesn't answer. 817-293-4645

Can't help with Bio Quenchs.

Ghaaa i hate making phone calls after working as a telemarketer for 2 months =( .

As for bio quenchs I found some soybean oil epoxied on amazon and can get it via amazon bissness account, however i am hesitant make one until i have actually sold more then the 1 knife I have sold so far.

https://smile.amazon.com/Spectrum-S1179-18KGBL-SPFDB-Soybean-Epoxidized/dp/B01NCP3966/ref=pd_ybh_a_9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YGKKRY85V2AZYFCR43PS