Issues With Propane...
 
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Issues With Propane Burner

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Posts: 5
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New Member here -- and a forging beginner at that. I am a hobbyist knife maker who is just starting to learn forging techniques. I joined ABS a short time ago, and have found it to be an informative and richly rewarding resource.

Here is my current dilemma:

I purchased a new MetalSmith propane forge a few weeks ago, and have used it several times. Most of the time it works fine, but several times (this morning included) I have been having problems with the burner:

After lighting the forge, I noticed that I could see little or no flame coming into the forge. The flame was instead coming out of the venturi holes in the burner. At times, there was even some flame escaping from the connection point between the burner and the hose. The forge itself was warming to a degree, but not hot enough to forge or even to heat treat.

I'm sure this is an adjustment issue, but I have no prior experience with propane equipment and do not know how to correct the issue.

If anyone can offer some advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Forrest Sanderson

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:55 am
Posts: 266
Member
 

What kind of regulator do you have the burner hooked up too??

Want to see more of my work follow me on Instagram:JasonVolkertKnives

Want to get in touch with me [email="[email protected]"]Email[/email] me.

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 3:01 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 749
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

What you described certainly isn't the right way for the burner to be acting..... in fact it sounds down right dangerous....

"The flame was instead coming out of the venturi holes in the burner. At times, there was even some flame escaping from the connection point between the burner and the hose."

LEAK CHECK EVERYTHING WITH SOAPY WATER BEFORE YOU EVER PUT A FLAME NEAR IT! If you had/have flame at the hose connection, you're lucky you didn't have a major accident! I don't want to sound overly dramatic, but you were VERY close to having a BOMB go off in your face.

Based on the information you gave, I would have to assume it's a fuel pressure issue..... as in not enough fuel pressure. I looked at the website of the forge/burner, and can tell you that base on the size, I'd estimate you'd need 15+ psi to make that burner operate correctly.

Also, check to ensure there isn't anything clogging/blocking the fuel supply hose...... I'd recommend taking it apart, and using compressed air.

Here's something else that you might consider..... I suspect you're using a small BBQ sized propane cylinder? If so, at the pressures burners of that type require, you won't get more than a few hours use out of a fill..... the propane "boils" off too quickly, and there's not enough volume in the tank to keep up, so at first you'll notice the burner flame getting weaker and weaker, and frost appearing on the exterior of the propane tank...... because the liquid propane inside the tank simply can't covert to vapor fast enough, due to the lack of volume....and the tank literally freezes up. Most of the time this will happen with venturi type burners when the tank is still 1/2-2/3 full. The only answers are to A: go with a large sized propane tank, or B: Switch to a burner that requires less fuel pressue/PSI to operate correctly. It's also a good idea to have a pressure gauge installed on the regulator (and a huge safety precaution)....that way if the pressure drops, you can see it on the gauge, and take action to avoid any accidents/incidents.

Ed Caffrey, ABS MS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
www.CaffreyKnives.net

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 4:49 pm
Posts: 5
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Topic starter
 

|quoted:

What kind of regulator do you have the burner hooked up too??

I don't know the brand, but the regulator is the one which was provided by the maker. https://mathewsonmetals.com/shop/item/propane-regulator

Since I posted this question, I was able to find a video published by the maker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u_C1JWpOdw I'm not sure that the issue is totally resolved, but I did finally get it to work (after it sputtered around for a few seconds) by turning up the gas pressure valve on the regulator, as instructed.

Forrest

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 4:55 pm
Posts: 5
Member
Topic starter
 

|quoted:

What you described certainly isn't the right way for the burner to be acting..... in fact it sounds down right dangerous.... LEAK CHECK EVERYTHING WITH SOAPY WATER BEFORE YOU EVER PUT A FLAME NEAR IT! If you had/have flame at the hose connection, you're lucky you didn't have a major accident! I don't want to sound overly dramatic, but you were VERY close to having a BOMB go off in your face.

Based on the information you gave, I would have to assume it's a fuel pressure issue..... as in not enough fuel pressure. I looked at the website of the forge/burner, and can tell you that base on the size, I'd estimate you'd need 15+ psi to make that burner operate correctly.

Also, check to ensure there isn't anything clogging/blocking the fuel supply hose...... I'd recommend taking it apart, and using compressed air.

Here's something else that you might consider..... I suspect you're using a small BBQ sized propane cylinder? If so, at the pressures burners of that type require, you won't get more than a few hours use out of a fill..... the propane "boils" off too quickly, and there's not enough volume in the tank to keep up, so at first you'll notice the burner flame getting weaker and weaker, and frost appearing on the exterior of the propane tank...... because the liquid propane inside the tank simply can't covert to vapor fast enough, due to the lack of volume....and the tank literally freezes up. Most of the time this will happen with venturi type burners when the tank is still 1/2-2/3 full. The only answers are to A: go with a large sized propane tank, or B: Switch to a burner that requires less fuel pressue/PSI to operate correctly. It's also a good idea to have a pressure gauge installed on the regulator (and a huge safety precaution)....that way if the pressure drops, you can see it on the gauge, and take action to avoid any accidents/incidents.

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 5:07 pm
Posts: 5
Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks, Ed! I was concerned about that explosion possibility, but was not sure if that concern was justified. Now you have made me feel lucky indeed.

Yes, inadequate pressure to be the case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u_C1JWpOdw

I am using a 20lb tank, which is (if I properly recall), the size mentioned on the instruction sheet that came with the regulator. The tank had a few hours of burn consumed already, and I'm sure it is getting low. What size tank would you recommend I use?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Forrest

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 5:10 pm
Posts: 266
Member
 

I'm not a professional @ running or building forges but I did build my own forge and did a lot of research before I built it. I would get a high pressure regulator with a gauge on it. As for the size of the tank I would get something bigger. I use a 100lb tank but you can get a manifold so you can run 2 20lb tanks at once which could help you out. Here is a link where you can get everything I mentioned except a 100lb tank. You would have to go to a propane dealer to get 1 of those. My link

As Ed stated leak test everthing!! Use soapy water in a spray bottle. Spray it on all the joints and make sure that there are no big bubbles that start to form and if you see flames coming off of anywhere except on the end of those burners TURN IT OFF ASAP. You could blow up and kill yourself.

Anyway I hope this helps. Be safe and forge <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//cool.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

Want to see more of my work follow me on Instagram:JasonVolkertKnives

Want to get in touch with me [email="[email protected]"]Email[/email] me.

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:20 pm
Posts: 5
Member
Topic starter
 

|quoted:

I'm not a professional @ running or building forges but I did build my own forge and did a lot of research before I built it. I would get a high pressure regulator with a gauge on it. As for the size of the tank I would get something bigger. I use a 100lb tank but you can get a manifold so you can run 2 20lb tanks at once which could help you out. Here is a link where you can get everything I mentioned except a 100lb tank. You would have to go to a propane dealer to get 1 of those. My link

As Ed stated leak test everthing!! Use soapy water in a spray bottle. Spray it on all the joints and make sure that there are no big bubbles that start to form and if you see flames coming off of anywhere except on the end of those burners TURN IT OFF ASAP. You could blow up and kill yourself.

Anyway I hope this helps. Be safe and forge <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//cool.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

Thanks, Jason! I will follow your advice.

Forrest

 
Posted : 28/07/2018 8:35 pm
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