Joshua, I think that's a fantastic idea. I've been wanting to try a frame handle, but I know I will have several questions along the way. I think the format you described would be perfect for situations like that. I, for one, would be very grateful for such a resource. It would be great to get this idea fleshed out. Thanks for the proposition!

Thanks Timothy (or is it Tim?)

I love frame handles. They are my preferred form of handle design and I would welcome the opportunity to help you make one. What type of knife are you thinking about?

Either name is fine, but most people call me Tim for convenience <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I would like to try another bowie for my frame handle project. I feel like this construction method will help me be able to tune the balance of the knife, as well as look really snazzy! For the fittings I plan to do a cold blued 1018 mild steel with coined nickel silver liners. Some of the questions I can anticipate are:

Should it be a take down, or epoxied fit?

At what stage should I profile the handle scales?

Would indexing pins, or built in tabs in the frame work better?

Again, I'm really glad you proposed this format for a forum topic. I think you were right that most people (especially beginners) are inclined to see a WIP as more of a "let me show you how I make this kind of knife" deal. An "In Process" topic category would be most helpful.

By the way, I've browsed your pictures of frame handles you've posted, and those have been a primary source of inspiration for me to give it a try. They are very well designed and executed. Thanks once again for your help, Joshua, and I'm looking forward to the project!

In my method, when it comes to a frame handle, one of the first questions to answer is whether it is symmetrical or not. The process differs slightly between the two.Other folks might have a different method, and that would be a welcome addition, but I can only discuss what I do.

Examples of a symmetrical handle would be a coffin, dog-bone, or any other shape that when you draw a center line through it, there is a mirror image top to bottom.

Your questions:

Should it be a take down, or epoxied fit?

That really doesn't change the process much. The only real difference is how to make the hole for the tang to pass through.

At what stage should I profile the handle scales?

Right after making the template and profiling the frame. (see below)

Would indexing pins, or built in tabs in the frame work better?

If you have looked at my examples, you probably noticed that I pins all my frame handles and dome or flatten the exposed pins. Some makers, like Jean-Louis Regel, index pins and keep them hidden. I think Mark Bartlett has a wonderful WIP showing this technique on a dog-bone here somewhere. I have never done this, so I cannot guide you through that process. I am not sure what you mean by "built-in tabs", please clarify.

I use templates for almost everything I do. Frame handles are no exception. Here are a few of my handle templates. These were made from full-scale drawings of the complete knife before anything was made.

So start with a full-scale drawing of the knife. Make the blade and get it ground, heat-treated and hand finished to the point where you are ready to fit the guard to it. When you have that drawing made, post a photo of it.

Great info. I'll see about getting a drawing made up shortly. If I could attempt some clarification on the tabs on the frame, I have seen a method of construction where the frame is cut down where it meets the spacer, but meeting in a sort of mortise and tenon joint. The "tabs" are left proud of where the spacer was cut down, and fit into corresponding holes in the spacer next to the tang. It's a bit difficult to describe, so I can try to find a picture.

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Great info. I'll see about getting a drawing made up shortly. If I could attempt some clarification on the tabs on the frame, I have seen a method of construction where the frame is cut down where it meets the spacer, but meeting in a sort of mortise and tenon joint. The "tabs" are left proud of where the spacer was cut down, and fit into corresponding holes in the spacer next to the tang. It's a bit difficult to describe, so I can try to find a picture.

I think Karl Andersen did a WIP on that method here somewhere.

I'll have to investigate those WIPs in detail. I came up with a preliminary drawing. I'm still thinking of where the pins should go, and how many.

Tim,

A thing to consider while thinking of "the pin location and how many" is the handle material and whether it is a solid block or a split set of scales that are put back together.

If it's a solid block, one piece, you can simply drill and broach the hole and use one pin.

If it is the split, book matched, method, I would use at least two pins, one forward and one near the back. Even though most handle glues are very good I like the insurance of the mechanical fastening.

Some materials are brittle, thin, or don't glue well and need the added strength, thickness, and/or mechanics of the frame and pins just to be acceptable as a handle material.

The character of the handle material should be a consideration when deciding the construction. While some knives turn out fine if you decide various aspects along the way, careful upfront planning will usually turn out best.

For instance: You may further note on your drawing the handle material you would like to use and the type of construction. Then consider whether these will be compatible. If you are set on using the frame handle construction, this would also mean you have to be prepared to install pins, in a lot of cases domed pins. So your skills at doming pins have to be considered along with the rest of the other factors.

Lin, I appreciate the input. Planning ahead is something I certainly need to be better at. in the case of this knife, I have set the dimensions similarly to previous knives, and have used a simple handle template that I have done before. I think that keeping some continuity with my previous work will help me have success on the new endeavor of a frame handle.

I have had minimal experience with doming pins, so I'm glad for your advice on planning everything out ahead of time. I will need to decide if I want to do domed pins or blind pins. I have a set of red morel scales that I thought would look really nice. They are quite a bit larger than the handle requires, so I can use some of the cut off pieces for material experimentation. Alternatively, I could easily obtain a more familiar wood.

Lin and Joshua, thank you again. And Joshua, sorry to jack your thread...

Lin, thanks for joining the discussion. I was hoping others would start adding ideas.

Tim, you have not jacked this thread, you have started us down the road I was aiming for. Thanks for jumping in.

Tim,

I like that drawing. Classic shapes. Like Lin suggested start filling in the details on the design materials. Then make a couple of photo copies and lay out the pin locations and size on the copy. I say do it on the copy, because this usually ends up with more than a couple of erasures and that will jack up the original. If you are going to use exposed pins (domed or flat top) you will quickly realize that the frame is too thin at the spacer end. The pins will end up going through a very small area that will likely be very rounded on the finished knife. Not an ideal placement.

When you look at examples of frame handles with exposed pins and realize that those pins are likely centered in the portion of the frame, you begin to realize that the tang is quite narrow behind the spacer package.

As regards your first entry in this thread, one thing I was told long ago - and it holds true today - is "Don't do anything until you have to."

I seldom wonder what it is I'm going to do next. I begin building the knife by doing only those things necessary. As the build progresses, the next thing that needs to be done will almost always present itself to me.

But one thing I ALWAYS!! do is build to a drawing. That way I always know where I'm headed.

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As regards your first entry in this thread, one thing I was told long ago - and it holds true today - is "Don't do anything until you have to."

I find this is very good advice. I also find myself building the handles off the blade and the guard is the last thing I make. Anyone else use this method?

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I find this is very good advice. I also find myself building the handles off the blade and the guard is the last thing I make. Anyone else use this method?

The guard is the last thing I finish. I create the basic shape of the guard as a guide to which I create the handle dimensions.

Finish the handle.

Take the guard off and then finish it.

Many times, I'm finishing my guard as my bluing salts are coming up to heat!