John

I am surprised by your attack on the American Bladesmith Society and the unjustified and unsubstantiated claims and statements that you have made. When you recently registered online for the ABS Forum, you received a telephone within minutes from me to discuss your login name and I made an exception to our rules to allow you to use Iron John Logan which is the name you said that you use for business. During that conversation I welcomed you to the ABS Forum and asked if you had any questions or needed any assistance. You never mentioned once that you had any difficulty joining our Forum.

After I approved your registration for the ABS Forum you introduced yourself on the Forum and several members warmly welcomed you. You replied in a post and I quote: " So far have been reading and reading, I am amazed at some of the ideas that are presented (kero welding) that I have never heard of. I am forging 3 folders today with ideas that I learned from this forum, thank you all! I will post a WIP as I go ". A fair reading of your words indicates that you felt that the ABS Forum was a wealth of bladesmithing information.

I have read every post and monitored all activity on the ABS Forum daily since I launched it several years ago and no ABS member has ever been attacked by another member. The American Bladesmith Society is a non profit organization with a mission of education and in that tradition the ABS Forum has become a well respected resource for authoritative information on the art of the forged blade. Our members are able to ask questions and receive answers from some of the top Bladesmiths in the world in an atmosphere of mutual respect. Our Forum has had more than one million topic views in more than 100 countries around the world since we went online.

You are a new member and may not be aware of all of the benefits available to ABS members. The American Bladesmith Society has the ABS Website, ABS Forum, ABS YouTube Channel, ABS Pinterest, ABS Twitter, Monthly Email Newsletters, Web page on Blade Magazine, three (3) annual issues of American Bladesmith magazine, bladesmithing classes at three (3) schools, a national program of ABS hammer-ins, and our ABS telephone is answered live 24/7. Most of the work in our organization is performed by dedicated volunteers who believe in our mission of education and the sharing of information.

It appears from your post that you may no longer wish to remain a member of our organization which now has grown to more than 1,200 members in 19 countries. If so please advise me and I will promply refund your dues but I hope that you will look more closely and see the great group of members that comprise our organization.

I can only answer for myself...but I joined the ABS (and will renew indefinitely) because:

1) The ABS is all about bladesmithing--my new passion.

2) The JS and MS stamps mean something (few even attempt it, many who attempt the tests don't pass, and those that do pass make nice knives). I like certification programs, especially when there is a practical component, not just fit/finish.

3) Education is key--the ABS organizes numerous hammer-ins and well-taught, inexpensive classes.

4) ABS members keep few secrets from each other (well, regarding smithing at least)--not only do you have experts addressing forum questions daily, but they do it kindly. I've even received personal emails from AS, JS, and MS who are not comfortable addressing questions on the forum, but who want to help me out anyway.

5) The good mojo--people in this organization are very positive.

I've only been a member for a couple years, but that's my thinking.

Iron John,

I seem to look at the issue differently. I have been asking for years how I can give and what I can contribute. Now part of that is just who I am but part of that is about adding to, or helping to create, or being a part of something. Life is not about what I can get from everything. So this is what I have found as a member since the early 1980s. I shared passion with others who shared mine. I made friends who I value highly. I think in some small ways I have helped the organization and that has helped bladesmithing. I love a hammer in my hands and the smell, yes the smell, of hot steel. I belong to a group where others feel the same way. Some feel that more than others and some just never quite get it. The latter fall to the road side by their own choice, but the welcome to come back is always there. I am a master smith and I worked hard to get there. The road was filled with struggles and were it not for members of the ABS, I might not have ever gotten there. So what do you want Iron John? Do you want a community of people who are dedicated to keeping the forged blade alive in a culture that systematically looks for the mass produced and disposable? Or, do you want to be part of something? You can always go it alone. On the other hand if you want financial gain by being an ABS member, you probably will not find it. That is not why I or most of the others I know are involved in this organization. Most of us give to this organization because we believe in it.

You do not have to belong. You may be strong enough to not need of community of bladesmithing friends. I am sorry if that is the case. I want to leave something and I expect nothing in return for the hours I put into the ABS. If I gain knowledge, I am satisfied. If I can teach others, I am satisfied. If the world of bladesmithing is improved by my involvement in just the slightest way, then it matters.

I hope you find what you are looking for. If I can help, let me know.

Dan

Hello Iron John. As Dan says I did not join for monetary gain. I wanted to be a mastersmith and I want to share what I have learned. It was not easy, think of getting a masters degree in college, or becoming a master electrician. But I proved to myself I could do it. As for what I have gained, a knowledge that I am helping to keep this art alive, wonderful friends around the world, and sharing what I know. So that is how it has helped me. How can the ABS help you? That is up to you and how much you are willing to put in. I mean this in terms of education. Are you willing to go to hammer ins, perhaps take some classes, ask questions you have on the forum, or ask other members. Yes, getting those letters will get you a better price for your knives, because collectors and buyers know that they can expect a certain level of quality if there is a JS or MS on a knife. I would be willing to bet most members are not in the ABS for that reason.

You mentioned the magazine. This is primarily concerned with ABS news and events, such as members recieving awards. It is nice to be recognized by your peers. There are a number of collectors that get the magazine, so the awards equal advertising. The main education tools are the classes, hammer ins, other members, and this great forum. You just have to make yourself available to these resources.

As for the dying organization, not any more. Thanks to new members and new ways to reach people. Also on line education such as the forum and the ABS youtube channel.

So I guess we are back to what do you want out of the ABS? What are you expecting? If you are expecting a worldwide community of people that share a passion for the forged blade, it is here. That is why I joined and why I will be a continue to be a member. If I can answer questions e-mail me or call.

Brion

John,

Your forum entry has me in a quandary, so I had to reply.

This is why I joined the ABS: I wanted to make great knives...

I have had a deep seated passion for knives and swords for as long as I can remember, so I started attempting to forge them. As I researched knife styles, designs, and methods of construction, I found that every knife was not the same. I noticed that certain knives always stood out above the rest in terms of overall beauty, style, design, fit & finish, and that these same knives were all made by ABS members. So, I joined. I soon learned about the performance standards of ABS knives, and I knew I was in the right place. Since then, I have learned a great deal. My knives have improved dramatically, I have forged many friendships, and I am truly honored to be a part of an incredible group of people who share a common focus---the forged blade. I started out as a complete stranger here, but I was greeted with respect, as a peer, and offered lifetimes of knowledge with nothing expected in return. Real knowledge and experience, no BS. All I had to do was ask. I know that anywhere I go, if there's an ABS member there, I have a friend (as do they). I have now found myself driven to be better at this craft so that I can, hopefully, have the opportunity to help pass on what I have learned (I did not expect this). It is all about the forged blade and keeping it alive...making it better. Each time an ABS member finishes a knife, I think we all share a little in that success... because it's not about me or any other individual member, it's about the journey we are all making, together, towards the forged blade...

I hope this helps, John. If there's anything more I can do, just ask...

John,

I have kids about your age. Although they dont bladesmith per say, they have respect for the craft and enjoy and appreciate what I do. I would never think of forcing or pushing them to do what I do as a vocation. Sure, I would offer it to them but, in the event they decide to learn it, they would have to learn it like I did. Would I help? You bet I, and the ABS, would be right there to make it all available. The elementary as well as the advanced knowledge. But I wont spoon feed someone who can feed themselves.

I wanted to learn bladesmithing to know it and to share it. That's what I like about the mission of the ABS. There's a place for all levels of craftsmanship. If we advance out of the elementary things, then we can spend a little more time teaching others, always learning and never being too prideful to think we know it all. It sounds like you have some decisions to make.

Mr. Logan;

I am sorry that you are disappointed in your membership ln the American Bladesmith Society.

But; as in most worthwhile endeavors; you get pretty much out of it what you put in.

Most members are hungry for knowledge; I know I am constantly looking for new things.

I don't expect my $60.00 worth of dues to buy me too much knowledge; thats the cost of a good steak dinner.

The membership is my TICKET to go find the answers from those that are willing to share.

How many ABS teaching events have you attended; and where?

Did the ABS members answer your questions?

A smith does not need the ABS to be successful or proficient. It sure does help slow learners like me.

When I went to my first hammer-in I realized the road was wide open ahead of me; what a great bunch of guys.

BUT; they expected, and I realized; I still had to do the walking.

Show up, step up, or....

I hope to see you down the road.

Mike

p.s. there is a lot of us old people around here.

John,

I'm sorry to hear and very disappointed, that you have been attacked on other forums for having joined the ABS. I would offer that the opinions of people who write such things are not worthy of your consideration. Do not let them define your worth, or the value of any organization that you are a member of.

"Why join the ABS?"

You answered your own question with your comment below.

"I still want to learn! I want to spread this knowledge to other people that are interested!"

The primary objective of the ABS is learning and sharing. The ABS Forum is a fantastic place to learn. We have a great bunch of bladesmiths on here who are willing to answer your knifemaking questions.

The ABS offers bladesmithing symposiums and schools all around the country that you can attend. You could even be asked to do a demonstration at one of the symposiums. But, not if you quit. All you have to do is participate.

We are also waiting to learn from you! I have been watching your WIP on the Forge Finished Folder. I expect to learn things from your posts. If you quit the ABS and this forum, we will both loose the opportunity to learn from each other.

"How does joining the community of the ABS help me or my business?"

For one thing, it gets you noticed. I did not know of you before you joined the ABS and this forum. I have now been on your web site and looked at your work. I see you as a very talented and creative craftsman. I can envision sending customers to you, who are looking for the types of items that you make. None of this would have been possible if you had not joined the ABS.

"Now that I am a member, why should I continue?"

I will answer this question, by asking you another question; what will you gain if you quit? Will quitting provide you with better opportunities for learning and sharing?

"I want what I pay for and I am more than willing to give back way more to the organization."

The value of your ABS membership is based on the amount of your participation. You will not be spoon-fed information. But, all you have to do is reach out and take it. You will not be forced to share what you know, but you can offer it freely.

Your opportunities with the ABS are waiting for you.

Thank you all, the information you all have given here is what I have been looking for! I want to put my all into this, I am an excited new member - I have just been shocked by the response I have gotten from asking questions as to the organization (as Dan demonstrated, by thinking I was knocking the ABS and didn't want to a member any more)... Typing is not my strong point, and I may come off wrong, But I really want to be a part of this! I dont want to be spoon fed, But I want the information to be able to contribute to the organization, and to continue

that make sense?

Dan - where can I find the information that you mentioned, the dates of the classes and hammer-ins? other resources?

Steve Culver - I think you understood what I was trying to say the best. Thank you for answering my questions with my own questions. It isn't that I am disappointed, I am just confused and I have not been able to find answers with out being attacked... which is disappointing

thank you all again. If you have any information as to where I look for these resources, local things that go on in Michigan, or how I can become an active part of the ABS - please let me know

John

John,

Just click on the American Bladesmith Society link, in the blue bar at the upper left of this Forum page. The link will take you to the ABS web site, where you can find information on the bladesmithing symposiums and schools.

John

I think that your questions have been answered pretty well here. The one thing to remember is what this organization is about.

I encourage you to read ABS Purpose. I also encourage you to look at the photographs in the gallery that are currently at the top of the forum page. All these knives are donated to the ABS to help support our purpose with 100% of the proceeds going to the ABS. I am proud to say that I was in this group a few years ago. There is a ABS suggestion Box on the forum page where the ABS solicits your input. There is a topic there asking what you what to see at hammer ins. I cannot imagine how much time it would take to read all the information on the ABS web site and the forums and all this information was provided with out monitary gain.

My point with all this is that it is being done to support Our Purpose. That is why we do what we do. For many of us we cannot help it and in return, we move forward as a knifemaking groug that is continually breaking new ground, exploring new methods, forging new relationships and gaining knowledge faster than most of us can soak it in.

The ABS is not about you or me , or anyone else. It is about all of us and the fact that we can move further, faster and better as a group than we can alone.

Welcome to the ABS, contribute when you can, seek information that you need, and enjoy the ride

Take care and remember, help is just a forum post, email, or phone call away.

Brian

Brian, you are right - I have been answered. I have been pointed in the right places to look for the information I crave.

Rereading my original post for this thread, doesn't sound the best - Please understand, I just haven't gotten the answers I wanted and maybe yes I lashed out... Admins can delete this thread if desired.

John,

I'm glad you've found what you needed here. Reading back over this thread, it is a great example of what the ABS is all about, and how devoted the members are to that purpose. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//cool.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

I even thought Blade was the magazine of the ABS... there may need to be a "new members area" to tell what is true and false about the organization...