Kevin,

I have been a member going on three years now. I have been very impressed with all the help and advice the board members and administrators have given to all of us. The Forum has so much helpful information that I find myself lost in topics or instructions for hours. All my questions and concerns have always been addressed in a timely and professional manner.

However I have been making knives via stock removal for years and lately began forging, I have not sold any. I have donated most and give some away.

With the help of the Forum I officially began a business in November, Pavia and Sons Cutlery. I look forward to many years as a member and hopefully a contributor when I muster some more skills.

I want to thank you, all the board members, administrators, and contributors to the Forum.

Kevin, would there be any merit to having more regional meetings? Not of the scale of the regular Hammer-ins, but more along the lines of the local ABANA groups where smiths in a given area get together every month to collaborate or share a newly learned technique. It would not need to be monthly of course, that's just how the ABANA groups tend to run. It would provide a little more structure in the sense that the members could share feedback regularly with the group leader who would then be in contact with the board. Might be a bit more of an undertaking than the ABS is looking for at the moment, but I could see the value as the membership continues to grow. ~Jacob Lutz

I would love to see some technical articles in the the news letter, articles about historical blade types or techniques, science based metallurgy.

MP

I would love to see some technical articles in the the news letter, articles about historical blade types or techniques, science based metallurgy.

MP

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Kevin, would there be any merit to having more regional meetings? Not of the scale of the regular Hammer-ins, but more along the lines of the local ABANA groups where smiths in a given area get together every month to collaborate or share a newly learned technique. It would not need to be monthly of course, that's just how the ABANA groups tend to run. It would provide a little more structure in the sense that the members could share feedback regularly with the group leader who would then be in contact with the board. Might be a bit more of an undertaking than the ABS is looking for at the moment, but I could see the value as the membership continues to grow. ~Jacob Lutz

I think many people hesitate at taking the initiative for fear of over-stepping their bounds, but the ABS would probably be thrilled to facilitate any group efforts. We are often asked why the ABS does not have a hammer-in in a given state, and the normal response is "what facilities do you have lined up and who are your people ready to make it happen?" I think local knifemaker gatherings is a great idea, and all any group has to do is do it, they don't need permission from the ABS to start sharing with each other. If they then have common concerns they can bring it right here and it can be presented to the board. If one looks at almost every ABS Hammer-in that is pretty much how it got started, a group of local guys started getting together until it grew, became organized and eventually turned into a hammer-in. I can think of one, that I was a part of, that worked the other way around and it couldn't sustain itself without the foundation of a local group.

I personally am a HUGE fan of regional representation within the organization, and while the current ABS structure isn't set up with that wide of a scope, this sub-forum may be just the thing to give that representation. If a local group wished to use the ABS forum to facilitate their announcing and organizing of meetings, I think that would be entirely in line with its purpose, and then eventual feedback could come here.

One thing that many folks need to be aware of, however, is that it is not that the ABS wouldn't be happy to put their name behind every gathering out there, there are legal and logistical limitations that often occur crop up. We are constantly reminded that life, and the world, is not as easy and carefree as it was in the old days, and a mound of way too official papers are often attached with an organization as large as the ABS officially sponsoring an event. But that is not stopping any group from going for it and then seeing how we can help.

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I would love to see some technical articles in the the news letter, articles about historical blade types or techniques, science based metallurgy.

MP

I must plead guilty, I have told Carolyn Hughes many times that I have some articles for her and then life gets in the way and I don't get them done. Despite it being quite expensive to publish I am a huge fan of the American Bladesmith journal for it is the one material object that we can put in the hands of every member as a benefit of being a member. I know the majority of the world has moved onto everything being in invisible streams of ones and zeros sent through the air, but I, for one, still appreciate holding something solid in my hands that shows I am part of something. I have a lot going on in 2018, but I, myself, will try much harder to follow through with helping with this concern.

|quoted:

I think many people hesitate at taking the initiative for fear of over-stepping their bounds, but the ABS would probably be thrilled to facilitate any group efforts. We are often asked why the ABS does have a hammer-in in a given state, and the normal response is "what facilities do you have lined up and who are your people ready to make it happen?" I think local knifemaker gatherings is a great idea, and all any group has to do is do it, they don't need permission from the ABS to start sharing with each other. If they then have common concerns they can bring it right here and it can be presented to the board. If one looks at almost every ABS Hammer-in that is pretty much how it got started, a group of local guys started getting together until it grew, became organized and eventually turned into a hammer-in. I can think of one, that I was a part of, that worked the other way around and it couldn't sustain itself without the foundation of a local group.

I personally am a HUGE fan of regional representation within the organization, and while the current ABS structure isn't set up with that wide of a scope, this sub-forum may be just the thing to give that representation. If a local group wished to use the ABS forum to facilitate their announcing an organizing of meetings, I think that would be entirely in line with its purpose, and then eventual feedback could come here.

One thing that many folks need to be aware of, however, is that it is not that the ABS wouldn't be happy to put their name behind every gathering out there, there are legal and logistical limitations that often occur crop up. We are constantly reminded that life, and the world, is not as easy and carefree as it was in the old days, and a mound of way too official papers are often attached with an organization as large as the ABS officially sponsoring an event. But that is not stopping any group from going for it and then seeing how we can help.

Thank you for the detailed response. I think that "grass roots" approach makes a lot of sense. As you suggested, the groups would sort of self select; meetings that had enough interest and support would naturally grow and that would save the ABS from investing time and money trying to start a bunch of local groups just see a large percentage of them peter out. Once a group has shown some consistency, it might then make sense for the ABS to consider tackling the logistics of a more formal association. Thanks for talking that through, your perspective makes it seem like a much less daunting task. ~Jake

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I would love to see some technical articles in the the news letter, articles about historical blade types or techniques, science based metallurgy.

MP

This is an outstanding idea. I would love to see an article each time in the journal of a "how to" nature. Most of us are very good at sharing techniques when at a hammer-in or shop visit. I would like to challenge some of you to take the time to put it on paper for Carolyn to include in the journal.

well I guess I should put up or shut it, <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//tongue.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> so I will send something in to Carolyn Hughes as well.

MP

At the risk of raising some ire, I'll be perfectly honest with you. I will start by saying that I support the ABS and have actively defended it on several internet forums. I do think this is a fantastic organization and these comments are not meant to disrespect or down talk anyone in particular, so please, don't take this personally.

This request sounds somewhat hollow.(and familiar) If the feedback at the banquet was valued by the BOD, but the banquet format became unmanageable, why was it abandoned without a replacement?

A while back we had a minor discussion about how to improve the forum and increase member participation. It was right before the first ICCE show event. There were several ideas bandied about and none of them were taken seriously by anyone in the admin group. Even a simple idea of presenting an anonymous survey form at the ICCE event was discarded. So it seems to me that these requests for feedback come up every once in a while and those in charge are not told what they want, or expect to hear, and nothing happens.

Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe that's not the truth of it. Maybe it's just how it appears to a casual observer.

Soliciting feedback can be a dicey thing, for everyone involved. Those giving it and those on the receiving end put themselves in a very vulnerable position. Often times criticism is met with defensiveness and derision. Some people will avoid offering suggestions for fear of being outcast or suffering future payback or retribution. My personal perspective of most ABS smiths is that they are a solitary lot. Most keep to themselves and don't interact with a large number of people. It's not much different than a lot of organizations based on volunteerism. There are a few core people who keep it going and a lot of folks who hang around for the benefits and don't contribute much.

For an organization that has public outreach and education as its primary mission, the ABS lacks a human face. It lacks a certain hominess and friendliness to many people. It lacks a sense of family for me. I know these are not tangible suggestions and may seem a little difficult to address, so I don't expect (nor do I want) a rapid response. I would prefer this sat and steeped for a few days. That might allow any emotional responses to cool off. As I said, I do not mean to insult anyone or the ABS, I am just raising concerns as was asked.

I haven't been very active on the forum lately, and it used to be a major part of my routine. Now, I come by and see what's new, and leave without contributing a whole lot. Part of me is saddened by that. The forum could be a very cool place. It could be very active and vibrant, but it isn't. It could bring a lot more members to the organization, but I'm not sure it does. It should bring more current members into active participation. I think part of that is the perception of a narrow focus on what is "acceptable" in terms of knife form and design. It seems very repetitious. It's as if the ABS is stuck making the same things over and over again just with different materials. There are very few examples of smiths here who are really pushing the envelope or experimenting with the art form. It's stagnant. I'd really like to see the ABS put some effort into the growing field of smelting and crucible steel making. The work that's being done all over the world and the research into the history of how humans made steel in ancient times is fascinating and exciting. Why is this arena not part of the ABS experience? It seems pretty fundamental to our purpose.

I like the technical article idea. My local blacksmith group has a newsletter and everyone of them has a "how to" section with a new project in each issue. Another thing I'd suggest is an idea I'd steal from another online forum. It would work in either this forum or in the newsletter, or both for that matter. It's an interview series. Someone acts as the interviewer and picks another smith to interview. The subject person (SP) answers questions about their life, presents photos of their work (current and previous projects), talks about who or what they see as influences in their career, goals they still have to reach or ideas they want to pursue, etc. Anything goes (except typical taboo items). When the two have decided the interview has come to a close, the SP picks another smith to interview and the process continues.

I second the interview thread Idea, the back story on smiths can be fascinating if nothing else. I know at least three medical Dr, several engineers, phds in a number of fields, many autodidacts.

MP

I like some of the suggestions that've been tossed around. Is there any sense in incorporating a "Poll/Voting" feature into the forum to assist the board in evaluating & identifying items that may be brought forward if it were logistically possible to meet in person? Just a thought....I'm a numbers guy.

Disregard my previous post. I just noticed that the feature I mentioned is already available here. I guess that I just haven't noticed it being used very often.

Joshua I'm not directing this at you specifically. You've got me thinking so I will ramble a bit along the lines of your post.

I read your post and saw things you would like to have the ABS do as ways of improvements. I also picked out what I think is the solution to what you view as the main problem. Here is your quote:

It could be very active and vibrant, but it isn't. It could bring a lot more members to the organization, but I'm not sure it does. It should bring more current members into active participation. I think part of that is the perception of a narrow focus on what is "acceptable" in terms of knife form and design. It seems very repetitious. It's as if the ABS is stuck making the same things over and over again just with different materials. There are very few examples of smiths here who are really pushing the envelope or experimenting with the art form.

I agree that the work we often see from ABS members, as a whole, is very much the same work as we saw last year and the year before that (with some exceptions). This is something that I personally have been attempting to change in my individual work. The only solution to broaden the focus of the ABS is to broaden the variety and creativity of our individual work and the skills associated with that work. If we all do the same type of work then, yes, we can expect to present the perception is that the ABS has a narrow focus. Very often when I make a knife that is main stream ABS style, I don't post it here. Why? Certainly not because I am ashamed of it. But because I'm busy AND I figure it's been "seen" before in the work of other ABS members. That's not a good reason, of course. Just being honest. My point is that we individually are going to have to "step up". Yes, even me. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

As for the organization growing, it is. I get notices nearly every day of new members joining. But numbers is just that. Numbers.

But the question is: What will these new members get from their membership?

Next question is: If I think the membership is not getting enough for their dues, what am I doing to contribute to the overall pool of information (nuts and bolts) as well as the introduction of new ideas and skills?

Another question: If I don't see others contributing, am I still willing to contribute?

These are just questions that I think of and not meant to be directly answered in this thread and thus derail it's purpose. It's my determination that regardless of what anyone else in the ABS does, I will do my best in contributing in all the above ways indicated in the questions. But, I am also willing to give the rest of the membership that same consideration.

Some don't have the time to do as much. There's times I just cant and I wont take it well when someone gets critical about it. In turn, I wont be critical of other members, even the board of directors, when old age, sickness, caring for life's issues chronically bombard them.

The technology that makes this forum possible is just coming into it's own when considering the average age and demographics of those who are responsible for this forum. It's taken a generation (and Dan and Sally) to get where we are and admittedly we have a ways to go. Some of us are limited by our IT skills and others are limited by time. But it is here and available for us to do with it what we will.

As for excitement. It's kind of like happiness. At some point a person has to take responsibility for his own happiness. The same with the excitement in making knives. That can ebb and flow, yes. But my excitement comes from new ideas and techniques that I learn or dream up and turn into a reality.

Speaking of "dreaming up"; If we as individuals would set a goal to conceive a new idea or technique each year, think of the excitement that would generate when we share it. The CKCA is making a push to inspire makers to be more innovative. It's my opinion, that we as individuals should always have that in the forefront of our goals as craftsmen. Being innovative. Think about it. Is not the perceived lack of variety/innovation the number one criticism directed toward the ABS style? It's a risky proposition to introduce a new technique to a bunch of accomplished craftsmen. Ask me how I know. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//rolleyes.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

But, we still need to push ourselves and let the chips fall where they fall.

INNOVATION is what I want to see. New ideas. New techniques. But don't overlook old ideas with your twist on it. This forum is where these should be shared in appropriate sub topics.

So after all that, I would like to see the ABS Board of Directors encourage INNOVATION. Encouragement is one thing. There might also need to be ways to showcase innovation. Awards, honorable mentions, etc.. This might eventually lead to new ABS sanctioned classes added to the curriculum.