I'm still not sure why folks get upset with the technical failings of FIF. Or why anyone would hate it.

It's a game. And it's entertainment. It's not there for education.

It has effected the entire knife community in ways I'm sure will echo for years to come.

Two years ago Blade Show management ran out of passes and documents for entry into the show.

Last year they bought xx thousand more and ran out of those, too. Last year Sunday was like a Friday of the past.

I've watched the membership here jump and increase. What else can we want?

It's all good and I'm glad FIF is still running.

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First.... I lean heavily towards Kevin's sentiments on this subject. That being said, I have a unique perspective on FIF, as I was invited to screen test for one of the judging positions. I went there, screen tested, and was not chosen.... and because of many of the "scripted" things I witnessed, decided well before they told me I'd not been chosen, that it was something was simply couldn't stomach doing anyway, and did not what to be a part of. Even after that, they would call me at least monthly, asking if I would be a contestant, or if I could direct them to anyone who might. And that was before the 3rd season! That tells me that even then they were scratching, trying to find contestants, and would take anyone who wanted to go.

That being said, has FIF popularized Bladesmithing? Sure! Has it brought some members to the ABS? Yes. Has it done what I consider an honest representation of the craft....not no....but HELL no! And there in lies my biggest issue. The first time the phone rang, and I answered to an individual who wanted "A chopping knife like they make on Forged in Fire!" After discussing specifics, we got to the price quote...to which the individual said (shouted).... "What! That's Bull $hit! (wipe that out if it's too provocative for the forums) I know it only takes 3 hours to make one of those knives!!" <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//huh.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> Yes, that happened to me, and more then a couple of times.

FIF has also diluted the custom knife market in a very bad way. How? When I see a knife being sold for LESS then the cost of the materials, and those knives are what I call "KSOs" (Knife shaped objects) made from some unknown piece of coil spring, and a weed burner torch. How in the world does a maker of quality cutlery quantify to a potential client, in a phone conversation, that the KSO he looked at/tells you about how wonderful it is, is a POS? And the knife you offer is far superior, but the cost is 3-5X what the KSO was being offered for. All the potential client hears is how much more your knife costs versus the one made from "a coil spring off a bulldozer"..... see where I'm going here??

I don't mind laying it right out here. I worked long and hard for my Mastersmith stamp/rating, and now more so then ever, "the knife public" recognizes "FIF Champion" more then "ABS Mastersmith"... and yes, I resent that, and it angers me. FIF will never have the world's top Bladesmiths on the show. Why, to be totally honest, why would anyone with any level of reputation wish to stake it on a 33% chance of winning such a subjective judging? Ask the Mastersmiths who've been there an lost how their business was affected, following the loss on FIF. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//dry.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />

Sorry, I couldn't be quiet. While there is the aspect of recongizability that FIF has brought the Forge Blade, my personal opinion is that it has done it in a manner that is a total misrepresentation of actual Bladesmithing, and has created and perpetuated significant falsehoods of the expectations of what a quality forged blade is/should be. And, finally, even though the majority of us who are experienced Bladesmiths see and know that it's all about the TV drama..... much of the viewing public takes it literally, and that creates major issues for us.

Let me just say that there are many things, that Ed had the conviction to say, that I have heard from a lot of good people who feel they shouldn't say anything in order not to rain on the parades of others, which, I think, only keeps the wound quite open under the surface. There are two sides to every issue and acknowledging that without being too dismissive is the first step in coming together on something.

Money has never been a prime motivator for me, my wife will verify this <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />. Since I was eleven years old, I have just loved the craft of making blades. When I got my MS in 95, it was so rewarding that I decided to devote myself to giving back to the craft that saved a young kid who was the product of a broken home, from the, delinquency and drugs that surrounded him everyday. It has been my privilege to do just that as an educator for the ABS. For forty years my life has been proudly defined by an ancient and noble craft, a craft which is now defined by something new. I would give anything to return to the days when I had to explain that my craft was still alive and what it was actually all about. But now, when not on business, I never wear anything that mentions bladesmithing in public and, when asked what I do for a living, I say that I do metallurgical consulting. Sorry if can’t be too warm and fuzzy about what did that for me.

At shows and events I have watched people, who barely made a blade or two before going on TV, or YouTube, and their star struck fans, disrespect makers who earned a reputation, probably before they were born*. But this is just one facet of a much larger trend that I call I call the “pop-culturalization” of bladesmithing, which includes and even greater concern when you see that folks also now have the ability to sell any level of quality instantly with a smartphone. Forget television, Karen shows me images all the time of the hottest makers on social media and I am appalled by the quality. Yes, knifemaking has always had lackluster talent that could sell or get published, but never with the power to reach the masses that they have now. It is a new era, and the ABS has its work cut out for it to keep the standards high and the public educated.

One last point. The ABS is a non-profit organization, so we need to avoid thinking of it like it is a business. More memberships are a good thing in that it may be more hands to help in our mission. Nobody will long care how many dollars in dues the ABS took in during 2019, but having the quality of an ABS member’s work being something others aspire to will be our legacy.

So, I am very grateful for any new member of the ABS, regardless of its source, so long as they are eager to join us in our mission. If a whole new population has heard the word “bladesmithing”, it is now the ABS’s job to teach them what that word means.

*it is only right that I give recognition to F. Page Steinhardt, who was standing in front of my table at Blade with his TV show T-shirt on, when a couple stopped and began fawning over his celebrity. Although he is proud of his TV time, Page, remembering that he was right in front of another makers table, stopped them and pointed to my work and gave credit for his success on the show to the guys who inspired him. Little things that help keep it all in perspective can make a world of difference in bridging the gap.

Some very interesting perspectives here and good points all round. I'm outside of the US, and was making before the show, but certainly still a new maker. I view the show as a good and bad thing for many of the reasons already listed, but worth noting that I probably don't see the same impact in Aus as many of you guys do.

It gives people an unrealistic view of knife-making and seems to have created a product benchmark for knives that is far from acceptable. With that in mind its not really any worse that many, many of the videos on Youtube that were being referenced prior to this show. The flip side is that is has certainly sparked an interest in bladesmithing. I view it as positive if it provides the impetus for someone to pursue the craft. I teach classes, and nearly every class has someone taking a class after seeing the show. I smile, tell them its an entertaining show and that they are about to learn how knives are really made.

Poor quality knives have always been around, smiths lacking in skills have always been around. The show hasn't damaged guild in my opinion, and it hasn't changed the objectives of the guild either. I view it as just a funnel to those that really want to develop, and then its up to members of the guild if we bring them on board.

Just my 2 cents worth, Cheers,

Matt

Matthew, That's a very balanced view of FIF. Pretty well nailed it for me. I watched a show or two just recently.

I don't think anyone can expect to learn to make knives correctly by watching FIF any more than one can expect to learn to drive by watching The Dukes of Hazard. But both are entertaining.

I do have to admit, that with all the varying viewpoints on Forged in Fire, it was nice last night to see a Master Smith, a Journeyman Smith and a member all on the program at the same time.

What might have been missed by the average viewer is that each one of them showed a high-er degree of focus and direction than the average contestant. They were less flustered and came to solutions for the challenges swifter and with better results.

And next week there are two JSs.

Instead of the question "Has Forged In Fire Had An Impact On The ABS?", why not "What Impact Has The ABS Had On FIF?" I can't think of anything that has gotten more people excited about the forged blade since Bill Moran revealed his first Damascus blade. I've been told Bill's reaction was to educate anyone willing to listen because he had no secrets and would share his process for something he spent years developing and re-discovering, eventually starting this great organization to educate and preserve the forged blade. I have not been on FIF, I have friends who have been, I'm not a Mastersmith, I've been an apprentice for close to 20 years. I have only seen maybe a dozen shows. I am just your average hobby bladesmith selling at local Gun & Knife shows and occasional Arts & Craft shows.

Every show I do I spend my time talking with "perspective buyers", the conversation usually starts with "Hey, you should be on that FIF show". That is all the opening I need to start educating them, that show is a contest/gameshow made for television entertainment with scripted time, equipment, materials & drama. What you see is what they choose to show you, less than an hour of over a hundred hours of what they filmed. Sometimes after I explain what the show is and isn't, some loose interest and move on, the ones who stay generally want more information, I direct them to look up the ABS on the internet and explain how I forge blades in my shop and invite them to our local blacksmithing group which I'm a member of and forge a blade, then go from there.

Where I think the ABS could make the biggest impact concerning the FIF show is to produce an educational brochure separating the show/myth from actual bladesmithing. Make this available in quantities free to all members to distribute at their local shows where most apprentices display and sell their blades on tables they are paying for. This would allow a unified message/talking points so everyone can be on the same page as the ABS whether you have one day experience or a lifetime in the ABS . This would be a sort of grass roots start to a higher education about the forged blade. I think the ABS should have a presence at all national gun & knife shows, NRA conventions, etc... to promote education about the forged blade. Maybe in lew of paying annual dues each mastersmith signs up for or is assigned a national show each year in their area and focuses their time at that show to the continuing education of attendees on forged blades, what they are and how much more they can be.

I don't think ignoring or putting down the show does the ABS any good, there are members that have been judges as well as contestants and if we are doing our job, every contestant and viewer are future ABS members.

Un-organized ramble over, feel free to take your bowie's and poke it full of holes. I have thick skin and can take it, I am a bladesmith after all, I'm used to the criticism.

Steve Seib

Evansville, IN

That is a very very good idea! Does not even need to be pre-printed a PDF file would be just as good and save the cost of shipping and printing!

MP

Great perspective Steve, I love that positive outlook on it.