It has had an enormous positive impact on the community. On all of the knife communities.

You can literally hear the words "Forged In Fire" while standing in line at the grocery store now. Consider that MILLIONS! of people now know what we do that prior to FIF had no idea we even existed.

The over-the-top climbing public attendance at the Blade Show in Atlanta has been attributed almost directly to FIF.

No doubt more than a few new members were directed here for that reason as well.

Of course there are the odd things that happen on the program that mislead folks, but overall - I think we should be grateful.

Oh, why do I write this knowing that it is wrong thing to do, and against all my better judgement? This topic is no different than discussing religion or politics for me, but sometimes remaining silent is even more distressing, so this is all I will say-

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...but overall - I think we should be grateful.

I cannot argue with many of Karl’s points about the public exposure, those are just facts, but with this I most profoundly disagree. There is a difference between notable and notorious, quantity and quality, reputation and celebrity. I really need to stop now, because no good can come from unbottling my feelings on this, but I felt I should say something on behalf of the numbers of smiths who remain silent out of respect to good friends who see it differently.

Not to overstep being very new here, but FIF is one of the reasons I joined. I had been using stock removal rather than forging for a few years and when the show came about I thought that I should "step up my game".

So to Karl's point, yes it helped in getting me here.

But to Kevin's point, me having no experience in forging, I could tell things aren't exactly right on the show. The main issue for me is going from sub-par materials to a "finished" product in what, 6-8 hours maybe? That kinda goes along with "quantity and quality" aspect Kevin says. And maybe Bobby is asking for exactly what you are hesitant to say Kevin... Maybe I should shut up now <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Pardon the pun, but maybe the show has a double-edge?

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Not to overstep being very new here, but FIF is one of the reasons I joined.

And we are grateful that you are here Andy. But now it is up to the ABS to show you, and hopefully the rest of the world, what real bladesmithing is all about.

I have to say yes FIF did influenced me.Not that I make a blade in 3 hours or a sword in five days.Thur FIF I decided to do some research on You-Tube about knife making. I didn't even know there was A.B.S. until I saw FIF and watched a few videos of smiths from A.B.S.. I came to the the ABS site to learn the correct information and learn from the best.I think it was a positive influence from FIF for me.By directing me here.

When asked by the public about the show I normally tell them that it has both good & bad for the knife business. I just hope that most viewers and beginning bladesmiths realize that the show is "Made For TV".

I'll stop there.

Oh, I certainly didn't say I approved of how blade smithing was showcased on the program - I just feel it has had a large positive impact in public acceptance of what we do and in spreading exposure.

It's still our job to set people "right" on many aspects.

Hitler certainly made WW II "popular" - but we had to set him "right", as well.

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Oh, I certainly didn't say I approved of how blade smithing was showcased on the program - I just feel it has had a large positive impact in public acceptance of what we do and in spreading exposure.

It's still our job to set people "right" on many aspects.

Hitler certainly made WW II "popular" - but we had to set him "right", as well.

<img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//biggrin.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Not too long ago I was talking to Karen about this and used the example of indigenous pre-contact cultures that never recover from "exposure" to pop culture, she said I was being hyperbolic with the comparison <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//wink.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> . So Karl, your comparison almost had my tea coming out my nose this morning. For what it is worth, Hollywood has been raping our craft since silent films, in the 80's and 90's I couldn't mention my job without hearing all about Macleod's or the Kurgans awesome swords, I thought it would get better until Kill Bill came along, but that is exactly why we have the ABS.

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I thought it would get better until Kill Bill came along, but that is exactly why we have the ABS.

I want to make a Light Sabre.

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And we are grateful that you are here Andy. But now it is up to the ABS to show you, and hopefully the rest of the world, what real bladesmithing is all about.

I couldn't agree more. Sensationalized T.V. is great entertainment, but not true to life.

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I want to make a Light Sabre.

Sorry Karl, too late:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC3jGEp5llU

Jump to 11:30 to skip all the sciencey stuff.

I have experienced more customers asking for forged blades over my stock removal ones since the show came to be and most want me to leave hammer marks and to leave them looking less finished.

On another note, being very safety oriented, I find the time frame to make a knife on the show to be dangerous and this sends the wrong message of a true professional IMO.

First.... I lean heavily towards Kevin's sentiments on this subject. That being said, I have a unique perspective on FIF, as I was invited to screen test for one of the judging positions. I went there, screen tested, and was not chosen.... and because of many of the "scripted" things I witnessed, decided well before they told me I'd not been chosen, that it was something was simply couldn't stomach doing anyway, and did not what to be a part of. Even after that, they would call me at least monthly, asking if I would be a contestant, or if I could direct them to anyone who might. And that was before the 3rd season! That tells me that even then they were scratching, trying to find contestants, and would take anyone who wanted to go.

That being said, has FIF popularized Bladesmithing? Sure! Has it brought some members to the ABS? Yes. Has it done what I consider an honest representation of the craft....not no....but HELL no! And there in lies my biggest issue. The first time the phone rang, and I answered to an individual who wanted "A chopping knife like they make on Forged in Fire!" After discussing specifics, we got to the price quote...to which the individual said (shouted).... "What! That's Bull $hit! (wipe that out if it's too provocative for the forums) I know it only takes 3 hours to make one of those knives!!" <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//huh.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> Yes, that happened to me, and more then a couple of times.

FIF has also diluted the custom knife market in a very bad way. How? When I see a knife being sold for LESS then the cost of the materials, and those knives are what I call "KSOs" (Knife shaped objects) made from some unknown piece of coil spring, and a weed burner torch. How in the world does a maker of quality cutlery quantify to a potential client, in a phone conversation, that the KSO he looked at/tells you about how wonderful it is, is a POS? And the knife you offer is far superior, but the cost is 3-5X what the KSO was being offered for. All the potential client hears is how much more your knife costs versus the one made from "a coil spring off a bulldozer"..... see where I'm going here??

I don't mind laying it right out here. I worked long and hard for my Mastersmith stamp/rating, and now more so then ever, "the knife public" recognizes "FIF Champion" more then "ABS Mastersmith"... and yes, I resent that, and it angers me. FIF will never have the world's top Bladesmiths on the show. Why, to be totally honest, why would anyone with any level of reputation wish to stake it on a 33% chance of winning such a subjective judging? Ask the Mastersmiths who've been there an lost how their business was affected, following the loss on FIF. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//dry.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />

Sorry, I couldn't be quiet. While there is the aspect of recongizability that FIF has brought the Forge Blade, my personal opinion is that it has done it in a manner that is a total misrepresentation of actual Bladesmithing, and has created and perpetuated significant falsehoods of the expectations of what a quality forged blade is/should be. And, finally, even though the majority of us who are experienced Bladesmiths see and know that it's all about the TV drama..... much of the viewing public takes it literally, and that creates major issues for us.

This is a subject I mostly try and stay out of, and I hope I don't tic anyone off with this post. But I feel a huge need to give a different perspective on this. Like Ed I feel like I have a unique perspective on FIF. In fact I feel a little bit of responsibility for the whole FIF thing because not only was I the first aired winner but because I was also on the pilot that never aired. what I did on that pilot along with the three other contestants is in large part why the show got picked upin the first place.

That said I agree there is a lot to dislike with FIF and, I wholeheartedly agree that what goes on on that show is a bunch of BS most of the time. At this point I don't think the challenges are even fair in many cases. Somuch so that I can't watch it anymore, My family gets too upset listening to me screaming at the TV. I will say that my issues with the show have little to do with time more the nature of the fairness of the challenges as well as the casting. There is plenty of time in most cases to complete the project, much of the show is about time management and efficiency as it applies to skill but not craftsmanship in any way.

What we have to remember is that it is a game show, one that uses our craft to entertain. The show is not meant for us, what we would like to watch would most likely fail miserably as a TV show. The price of that use of our craft is as everyone has said, a lot of miss-information uneducated customers and bad knives on the market. Of course that is certainly nothing new in our community, arguments of the "right way to do things" have always been around, and frequently far more nasty than anything over this for that matter. Poorly designed and made knives selling for stupid money (both high and low) have also been around a long time. All one needs to do is look back at the chef or edc market 7-8 years ago and see the same sort of issues happening well before FIF. Heck I have seen knives on the cover of magazines I wouldn't have let out of my shop. These are old problems writ large right now because the community has expanded far more than our ability to educate it.

Therein lies the benefits we so like to ignore. We all tend to forget that it is not a Zero sum game. We must remember that every new maker good or bad expands the market, our customer bases may buy from a new maker but that doesn't mean they will not still buy from us, nor that that same new makers customers will not buy from us in turn. A larger more robust market is never bad. If you can not explain why 1 your work is worth the cost and 2 why it is better then x or Y , any loss of sales is on you not growth in the market.

FIF as not just grown the knife retail market but has opened up the desire for education in unprecedented ways.

I have been teaching for a long time, and in the last 6 years I have seen short one and two day classes across the board go from struggling to fill to regularly wait listing. Not just my classes, but just about any class on bladesmithing at any of the school I teach at. In fact there are new schools opening all the time all over the place and they to are filling classes.

The vast majority of those taking these classes, will never make a knife again, but they will leave with something they made as well as a new appreciation and understanding of what we do. This sort of class is both a good starter and outreach to the public.

Additionally, I see a huge shift in reactions at traditionally non-Knife events. craft shows, foodie shows, farmers markets, buy local events what have you. When meeting with the general public until FIF it was like you needed to first convince people that this was something people still did, that this was in fact a real thing, then you needed to convince them to buy a knife, now most of the time it is just down to justifying the cost. That is a very big change, one that is for the better I think. Yes the consent talk of FIF is annoying but so was the talk of everybody grandfather being a blacksmith when I demoed for the public regularly.

I submit that we are failing, we are failing in our marketing, failing in our efforts to educate. we are failing to take advantage of the opportunity or in many cases even see the opportunities this has offered to us. we don't have to like FIF, even I, who has done the show several times have come to hate it, But we should be mature and adult enough to take advantage of its opportunities.

For me this is about more than just making a living. If all I wanted was just to make money I would go back to building railings, and probably triple my income. For me this is about the craft and sharing and giving back to something I love. A large part of why I did FIF in the first place was I hoped to create the very opportunities that have come about, I will not claim my decision was entirely altruistic but it did in fact play a part.

As far as being a champion goes , Ed I wish you would send those customers that think it means more than a stamp to me as I certainly haven't seen any. I had a bigger bump to my sales attaining JS than anything I did on TV.

We can all hate the show, that is fine but we should also remember what it has changed for us, and look to take advantage of those gifts to the community.

I am reminded of a series of conversations I had about dealing with bad/wrong/or harm full information at Ashoken last Sept.

My take away from those conversations was that reacting with anger and attacking only emboldens one's opponent. It justifies their position and has the effect of reinforcing that narrative. Ignoring bad information only lets a bad narrative stand as given fact, also not a great option. It seems like the only way to combat a bad narrative it is to give people the tools to see it for what it is, and then to do our own part to present good information and a well thought out factual narrative. We as a group are falling into this trap with FIF, our anger over the perceived slander of our craft makes it all the harder to educate away those things we see as problems our very reactions are in fact reinforcing that narrative as factual. Like the old saying goes, no press is bad press, we all should be taking advantage of the excitement around forged knives, not drawing a line in the sand between “real “ bladesmithing and what you see on TV. we need to share and grow and educate. the ABS now more than ever needs to be a light in the fog leading new smiths to good solid information, and educating collectors and customers to see good work for what it is.

Well stated Matthew!

Brion