Jared, I haven't tested yet but, I'm nearly there. Working on my new performance test knife design now. As to the set I would advise you to attend a Hammer-In and sit in the judging standards class. Folks who have judged before go to great lengths to explain what it takes. Also bring some of your finished pieces for them to review. Its better to find out what needs to improve before you make your final set.

I've taken the intro class twice. I made a test knife several times on my own and from the at home testing. and reviewed by others that have passed the test. I have improved my design to the point I'm ready to forge 3 final blades and finish them one at a time to test 2 at my shop. Then finish my actual test knife.

I believe it is very important to consult with those that know. Especially everyone here as they are all willing to help when you show you care...

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Jared, I haven't tested yet but, I'm nearly there. Working on my new performance test knife design now. As to the set I would advise you to attend a Hammer-In and sit in the judging standards class. Folks who have judged before go to great lengths to explain what it takes. Also bring some of your finished pieces for them to review. Its better to find out what needs to improve before you make your final set.

I've taken the intro class twice. I made a test knife several times on my own and from the at home testing. and reviewed by others that have passed the test. I have improved my design to the point I'm ready to forge 3 final blades and finish them one at a time to test 2 at my shop. Then finish my actual test knife.

I believe it is very important to consult with those that know. Especially everyone here as they are all willing to help when you show you care...

I am ready to do another performance test right now George I feel very confident in the blade I have made and just need to fit a handle and make the drive to a master's shop. That's not really what I'm looking for though. I can make a very functional high performance knife. I just don't feel as if I have the capability to make a flawless JS or MS quality presentation knife. I always see flaws in my fit in one place or another. I know what to watch for but with the quality that some people present the bar is set very high. I just wanted to hear from someone who didn't make it on the first try with the presentation knives and hear the feedback that they were given.

Jared, first off let me say that I do not think you can make a perfect knife. Seen some that were really close though. You mention the standards being high. The ABS has not raised the standards but the applicants have. The knives keep getting better. My suggestion is to make what you feel to be your best knife or knives you have made. Then take them to a hammer in or a master smith and have them look at them. They should point out any issues and help you on how to fix them. As makers we are our own worst critics. Attend a hammer in and go to the JS and MS judging standards class. Also ask here on the forum.

As for the FB post you mention. Pictures do not tell the whole story. As a judge, I need to see and handle the knife in person. Three dimensions, not the one of a picture. The picture is good but you can't tell anything about fit and finish, straightness, etc. The people that are commenting have not seen them in person, hence some of the nasty comments. I have seen them in person and judged them and I stick by my judgement. I am not going to post a comment on that post as it would just add fuel to the fire.

Best of luck and let us know how we can help.

Brion

Thanks Brion,

I'm just worried about my presentation set maybe not being up to par. I wonder if perhaps i should hold off on the performance part for the second time around until I can get some of my knives to a few masters and let them look them over to see if they even think I'm up to the level for the presentation part yet.

Thanks,

JL Foster

Jared, I think Brion's advice is on the point. Take your best work to a msatersmith and let them critique it. Your friends and family mean well with their encouragement but sooner or later you have to go to the ones who really know if the knife will pass or not.

Instead of wanting to see knives that have not or would not pass JS scrutiny (BTW, there are plenty out there), I think you should study the knives and the makers who have passed the tests. Yes, study the makers too. Get to know them when possible. Notice their ethic, their focus on detail, and who or whose work they follow and emulate. When you do this, you will come to see a pattern. Observing and enlisting the benefits of that pattern will contribute to your success.

That said, don't be overly critical on those who have passed the tests and whose work remains imperfect. Brion is right about that too. It's up to each person to do his or her best. It's even more important that those 5 knives are you very best work to date. You should not think of it as whether you are better than the next person. You should be trying to get better than what you were yesterday.

I'm just worried about my presentation set maybe not being up to par. I wonder if perhaps i should hold off on the performance part for the second time around until I can get some of my knives to a few masters and let them look them over

First of all, it's very easy for folks on social media to be "arm chair" experts. As Brion mentioned, you can't judge anything based on pictures. Having judged at both the JS and MS levels numerous times, its surprising how many knives looked really good in pics, but were sorely disappointing in person.

Having your presentation knives evaluated by as many MS as possible is what I call "doing your homework". In fact I'd go so far as to say that it's simply foolish not to do so... and do it EARLY, so that any noted problem/issues can be corrected.

Whenever I'm judging, and an individual does not pass, my first question is always "How many Mastersmiths reviewed your knives?" Almost with out exception, the answer from those who fail is "None.", usually followed by some excuse such as "I don't have any Mastersmiths in my local area", or "I wasn't going to drive 3 hours just to have my knives reviewed." There you go.... fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

I'd like to point out something else too. In your post to stated....

until I can get some of my knives

DO NOT get "SOME" of your knives to MS for review. Get ALL 5 performance knives completed, and get them ALL to as many MS as possible for review/evaluation. I've seen it time and time again, individuals who took "a couple" of their presentation knives for evaluation, got the "OK", then failed in Atalanta because the other knives that were not evaluated by an MS were not up to par.

I had a VERY awkward moment in the JS judging room one year. A candidate had brought 3 knives to me for evaluation, and I deemed all three as "pass", but he did a terrible job on the last two, and failed. When another judge asked him if he'd had the knives reviewed by an MS, the individual pointed at me and said "Ed Caffrey reviewed them, and said they would pass!" So here I am, being thrown under the bus, and having to explain myself to my peers. After that, I simply will not even consider reviewing ANY knives for JS or MS judging, unless I review ALL 5 of them.

JS and MS candidates please read and follow the advice given by Ed Caffrey. For years I was the ABS contact for JS and MS candidates who wished to submit their work to the Judging Panels in Atanta or San Antonio. I always asked each candidate that I spoke to if they had shown their presentation knives to a Master Smith or several Master Smiths for a critique in advance of the actual judging. I have to say that the candidates that said that they had not did not have a very good success rate for passing.

Thanks for all of your input, Mr Caffrey what I mentioned about getting some of my knives to a master was I'm so isolated where I am that I really don't have something to hold one of mine up against aside from a few hammer ins. I know quality when I see it I just always find flaws in my own work. I just want to know if I'm even getting close with what I'm producing at this point. I hope that makes sense. I plan to get my five reviewed as you said but I just wanted to see if I was even up to the task yet or if I should work on my craft for a few more years.

"isolated" is South Africa, or Brazil, or Belgium, or Australia, or Canada . My first hammer-in all my money went for gas to get there and back. Sleeping in the truck seat was worth it.

There is no easy way, all of us pay it one way or another. Gas on the road burns just like gas in the forge.

Talk to people who know; and care.

Take this as my personal opinion, and I hope it reflects on no one else.

Many times we hear to have our knives inspected by as many MSs as possible. It takes a lot of dedication to achieve that rank and those who have can build a pretty decent knife.

Also keep in mind that JSs MUST make a MS quality knife, or they would never be an MS. They know how to build knives, too.

Even with that said, if and when I show my knife to any MS, it will only be to one who has been a Judge.

I say this to reflect on no one, showing your knife to a person who has experience being a judge will get you a judgement.

Showing your knives to someone who simply has a stamp will get you an opinion. Now I will admit, that opinion may be quite valuable and help in many ways.

(I mean - I know what a pretty woman is, but I've never been asked to judge a beauty contest. All I would have is an opinion.)

Showing your knives to too many people may also be confusing. I know of one instance where this was tragic.

If you choose to have your knives looked at by another maker - choose them wisely.

Choose someone you respect from personal contact with them.

There are certified and credited makers who I wouldn't show my knives to as a last resort. I have no admiration for them - regardless of their rank.

The ones I would show my knives to are found here on the ABS forum They are active in the field and helpful in all kinds of ways.

My friend Brian Thie I think shipped them to Ed Caffrey? Right, Ed?

There were no makers in his physical area of Nebraska so he shipped them.

Also, what he did was take some photos of the knives from different directions and sent the photos along so the "inspector" could make notations on the pictures of areas with concern. I always thought that was brilliant.

There are many ways of getting your knives looked at, even if there is no one in your immediate area.

Both Mike and Karl make valid points.

On the issue of "isolated" I know that the 2016 candidates from Brazil had their presentation knives critiqued by Master Smith Rodrigo Sfreddo ahead of the 2016 Atlanta judging as did the candidate from South Africa who had Master Smiths Heather and Kevin Harvey do the same in Belfast, South Africa. These candidates passed in Atlanta and one earned the Joe Keeslar award.

My friend Brian Thie I think shipped them to Ed Caffrey? Right, Ed?

He did! And I have to believe that doing so was a big part of his passing, versus not having the knives reviewed. Ever since, I use Brian as an example (not necessarily by name) of how if passing the JS or MS testing is important enough, a person will "find a way".

I guess the best way to say it is....... how badly do you want it? Personally, I would much rather lay out my presentation knives in the testing room, knowing I had done everything I could to ensure success, and leave as little as possible to chance. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

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"isolated" is South Africa, or Brazil, or Belgium, or Australia, or Canada . My first hammer-in all my money went for gas to get there and back. Sleeping in the truck seat was worth it.

There is no easy way, all of us pay it one way or another. Gas on the road burns just like gas in the forge.

Talk to people who know; and care.

No MS in Holland.

Just do your stinkin' best to make your best knives. Straight, clean, no gaps.

don't discount the help of JS smiths , they have after all passed, and should have a good idea of what is expected. I had Mace look at my knives when i was working on them,(he had just happened to stop by the shop)and what he saw that i didnt even know to look for.. lets just say his help was invaluable. I had plans to get my knives in front of a several MS I had even set it up but had somethings come up that forced me to just test with out that help, I passed but I will tell you I was sweating it...

MP