Kevin, the answer is no. The knife must be from a single steel. Nothing damascus or even resembling damascus. No san mai. The most common steels used are 5160 and 1084.

Brion

To add to what Brion said, don't even show up to either phase of the JS testing (practical or presentation) with anything that even looks like damascus. The judges use nothing more than their senses when judging, so if it looks at all like laminated material/damascus, chances are very good you'll fail, or at the very least be denied judging.

That goes for things such as etched wrought iron fitting, or anything else that could possibly be construed as laminated material/Damascus.

The rules specifically state: "Only forged blades may be tested. Applicants for Journeyman Smith must test with a carbon

steel knife. Damascus or laminated blades are not allowed as test blades for those seeking

the Journeyman Smith rating."

As for Presentation knives: "The knives to be judged must be made of plain carbon steel (no

Damascus or other forge-welded material)"

I always tell people who are interested in testing for either JS or MS..... Read, and then re-read, and then read the rules again. They say what they mean, and mean what they say. There is no leeway given for interpretation of the rules, nor is "I didn't know" an accepted excuse.

I'm not trying to be brash, but every year, about 3-4 months out from the Blade Show in Atlanta, I get a rash of phone calls from people who seem intent on trying to make the rules say what they want, and it just doesn't work that way.

Thank you Ed.

Brion

|quoted:

To add to what Brion said, don't even show up to either phase of the JS testing (practical or presentation) with anything that even looks like damascus. The judges use nothing more than their senses when judging, so if it looks at all like laminated material/damascus, chances are very good you'll fail, or at the very least be denied judging.

That goes for things such as etched wrought iron fitting, or anything else that could possibly be construed as laminated material/Damascus.

The rules specifically state: "Only forged blades may be tested. Applicants for Journeyman Smith must test with a carbon

steel knife. Damascus or laminated blades are not allowed as test blades for those seeking

the Journeyman Smith rating."

As for Presentation knives: "The knives to be judged must be made of plain carbon steel (no

Damascus or other forge-welded material)"

I always tell people who are interested in testing for either JS or MS..... Read, and then re-read, and then read the rules again. They say what they mean, and mean what they say. There is no leeway given for interpretation of the rules, nor is "I didn't know" an accepted excuse.

I'm not trying to be brash, but every year, about 3-4 months out from the Blade Show in Atlanta, I get a rash of phone calls from people who seem intent on trying to make the rules say what they want, and it just doesn't work that way.

Thanks for clearing that up, I do not ever plan on buying the stuff I mentioned as I am crazy enough to actually like doing forge welding and mainly was curious as I still have a long way to go. However what if I showed up with a wootz steel/ True/crucible Damascus blade? this is a single steel that naturally has the patterning of a Damascus blade? Ya its very hard to get, However I do eventually plan on making my own wootz once I can get or make a kiln that has the heat to smelt steel.

However what if I showed up with a wootz steel/ True/crucible Damascus blade? this is a single steel that naturally has the patterning of a Damascus blade? Ya its very hard to get, However I do eventually plan on making my own wootz once I can get or make a kiln that has the heat to smelt steel.

You would either be failed outright, or at the very least refused testing/judging.

Like I said:

if it looks at all like laminated material/damascus, chances are very good you'll fail, or at the very least be denied judging.

That goes for things such as etched wrought iron fitting, or anything else that could possibly be construed as laminated material/Damascus

.

That's what I was talking about when I said:

I get a rash of phone calls from people who seem intent on trying to make the rules say what they want, and it just doesn't work that way. They say what they mean, and mean what they say.

Take those rules at face value. and don't try to "game" them... trust me, it's simply an argument you will not win.

|quoted:

You would either be failed outright, or at the very least refused testing/judging.

Like I said:

.

That's what I was talking about when I said:

Take those rules at face value. and don't try to "game" them... trust me, it's simply an argument you will not win.

Sounds good. i prefer to ask now as i do want to go for JM when i finally qualify, instead of asking last minute...and I hate making phone calls. Is etching to bring out a hamon or to 'fake' a hamon and or add details ok? Etching is one of my favorite things to do when detailing a blade and a hamon can give a similar effect to a San Mai steel blade.

I'd say that if you're going for you JS, don't try to do anything "fancy". The performance blade is all about the performance, not the looks. Obviously it would be important for you to contact the MS you intend to test with (when the time comes) and ask that specific question about the JS Performance test blade.

When it comes to the 5 presentation knives, my advice is.... Keep it super simple, and super clean. I've lost track of how many times I've been a judge at the JS level, and an individual does something "fancy" to their knives, in hopes of "impressing" the judges, but many times it was something that was beyond their skill level, and it ended up failing them, rather then helping. You have to understand that ALL of the judges are Mastersmiths..... chances are very good that anything you can do to a knife, they have either already done, or at least attempted it.

EVERYTHING that a JS or MS applicant can do to a knife in an attempt to embellish it will be judged. If you put filework on a knife, the filework will be judged. If you carve a handle, guard, or blade, the carving will be judged. If you etch a straight carbon steel blade....that will be judged too. See what I'm saying?

One of the major reasons that Damascus is no longer allowed on JS test knives is the fact that many people were showing up to JS testing with damascus blades that were VERY poorly done, and then, when they failed, they would complain "But I made Damascus!" "That's Damascus!" When in reality, it was a poor attempt at making Damascus.

There are very specific rules and guidelines for testing at both the JS and the MS level, and the ABS will not spoon feed anybody the information. Part of the process of becoming a JS and eventually an MS, is to do you "homework", learn what is, and is not acceptable to the organization in terms of knives, and plan/build your test knives accordingly. It's certainly not easy, and rightfully so, otherwise everybody would do it. It gets even more difficult at the MS level, that's the reason why there are only approx. 117 in the entire world.

Maybe these articles that I wrote for my website will be helpful.... These are my words, and in now way should they be taken as the voice of the ABS. I'm simply using my experiences testing for both my JS and MS ratings in order to try to help others along the path.

JS Performance testing

JS Presentation Testing

|quoted:

I'd say that if you're going for you JS, don't try to do anything "fancy". The performance blade is all about the performance, not the looks. Obviously it would be important for you to contact the MS you intend to test with (when the time comes) and ask that specific question about the JS Performance test blade.

When it comes to the 5 presentation knives, my advice is.... Keep it super simple, and super clean. I've lost track of how many times I've been a judge at the JS level, and an individual does something "fancy" to their knives, in hopes of "impressing" the judges, but many times it was something that was beyond their skill level, and it ended up failing them, rather then helping. You have to understand that ALL of the judges are Mastersmiths..... chances are very good that anything you can do to a knife, they have either already done, or at least attempted it.

EVERYTHING that a JS or MS applicant can do to a knife in an attempt to embellish it will be judged. If you put filework on a knife, the filework will be judged. If you carve a handle, guard, or blade, the carving will be judged. If you etch a straight carbon steel blade....that will be judged too. See what I'm saying?

One of the major reasons that Damascus is no longer allowed on JS test knives is the fact that many people were showing up to JS testing with damascus blades that were VERY poorly done, and then, when they failed, they would complain "But I made Damascus!" "That's Damascus!" When in reality, it was a poor attempt at making Damascus.

There are very specific rules and guidelines for testing at both the JS and the MS level, and the ABS will not spoon feed anybody the information. Part of the process of becoming a JS and eventually an MS, is to do you "homework", learn what is, and is not acceptable to the organization in terms of knives, and plan/build your test knives accordingly. It's certainly not easy, and rightfully so, otherwise everybody would do it. It gets even more difficult at the MS level, that's the reason why there are only approx. 117 in the entire world.

Maybe these articles that I wrote for my website will be helpful.... These are my words, and in now way should they be taken as the voice of the ABS. I'm simply using my experiences testing for both my JS and MS ratings in order to try to help others along the path.

JS Performance testing

JS Presentation Testing

I will remember this advice. =)

Kevin,

I've asked these same questions, and I've read and re-read the testing guidelines end to end. The very best advice I've received was to look at the photos of successful JS knife sets and see what worked for them. What seems to be a recurring theme is that the test applicants made knives that were designed to show that they had no flaws. Not created to hide them. Like my teacher told me: "make what he judges want to see. Get creative on your own time"

I hope this helps.

-Evan

|quoted:

Kevin,

I've asked these same questions, and I've read and re-read the testing guidelines end to end. The very best advice I've received was to look at the photos of successful JS knife sets and see what worked for them. What seems to be a recurring theme is that the test applicants made knives that were designed to show that they had no flaws. Not created to hide them. Like my teacher told me: "make what he judges want to see. Get creative on your own time"

I hope this helps.

-Evan

True words, however when the time comes I will still put my personality into the blade. i got two years till then, and I plane to improve with each blade I make. mumbles to self: im still trying to figure out edge geometry. Then again i never got the chance to take that particular math class... ok time to finally buy that copy of geometry for dummies.

Thank you for the tips.