Evan I would not have an issue with it. As long as it is done well. In other words if you use solder make sure that joint is clean and no excess solder. Bronze would be fine.

Brion

Brion and other judges, this might be a good moment to say something about Scagels and other styles that do not fit the ABS Standard Style. What I have gleaned from the hammer-in's I have attended is it's ok to submit a knife in the style of Scagel or other recognizable styles that don't conform to the ABS Standard as long as everything about them conform to that style 100%. In the case of Scagel, it needs to be 100% Scagel, not 5% Scagel and 95% what ever a person comes up with. Please offer your opinions and comments.

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Brion and other judges, this might be a good moment to say something about Scagels and other styles that do not fit the ABS Standard Style. What I have gleaned from the hammer-in's I have attended is it's ok to submit a knife in the style of Scagel or other recognizable styles that don't conform to the ABS Standard as long as everything about them conform to that style 100%. In the case of Scagel, it needs to be 100% Scagel, not 5% Scagel and 95% what ever a person comes up with. Please offer your opinions and comments.

Would someone do me a personal favor and define the "ABS Standard Style" please? I'm not really sure that there is such a thing.

I have been a member of the ABS for around 27 years and have a pretty good idea what a few things are all about, and I am not aware of an ABS style. I am aware of many design elements that I have observed on blades ranging from the bronze age to the present, and I believe they are all a possibility so long as they are done well. And I also know that I need some standard criteria on which I can fairly assess an applicant.

An ABS Journeyman applicant needs to ask these questions:

Do my knives show that I can cleanly execute standard design elements of many knives, elements such as-

Clean, even and aligned plunge shoulders. Fit and finish that is clean, uniform and well done; no gaps, dips, scratches, waves or wobbles.

Blades that are straight, edges that are sharpenable and sharp. Do the designs have symmetry, flow and proportion. (hint- if it looks clumsy it is almost guaranteed to feel clumsy).

To demonstrate this, you need to present knives that include the features that we need to evaluate your skills at creating them. Does the Scagel you plan to make include defined plunge lines? A crisp and well-defined ricasso? A guard, regardless of the material, that has a seamless fit or with clean solder? Many Scagels do not have these features so you need to ask- could you go the to the DMV and expect to get a driver’s license while opting out of the road test because somebody you highly respected never drove a car like the one you are being tested in?

Ferrara, Piccinino, or the guy who made the Ulfberhts all make the best of us look like wannabe amateurs at this whole bladesmithing thing, but I would have fail any one of them if they couldn’t give me the elements I needed to judge the whole spectrum of blade features in order to assess basics skills. Somehow, I think that wouldn’t be any problem for them though. I’m pretty sure when a sack of gold was plopped in front of them and they were asked to do something outside their standard style, all they would have said is- “When do you need it done?”

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Would someone do me a personal favor and define the "ABS Standard Style" please? I'm not really sure that there is such a thing.

Hey Joshua, thanks again for the video response to one of my earlier questions, it really helped me out.

So, with my time in grade at an end and getting ready to test for my journeyman rating, I've been researching what the judges want and looking at a lot of photos of successful test knives. And I gotta say, a LOT of them look like they all learned from the same people. Heck, they probably did! Looking at the work of:

1) Karl B Anderson

2) Ben Seward

3) Stephen Fowler

- their personal work may be wildly different from each other, but their Test sets all have the same "feel". There are a few notable exceptions that deviate from that style; the test sets of Dietrich Podmajersky and Sam Lurquin for example. But what Kevin Cashen said got me thinking: maybe its less the "style" of the ABS and more the requirements of the testing itself? Clean ricasso, defined plunge lines and a bolster or guard. A full tang, slab handled knife without a guard would be failed right off.

I think that accounts for why people would call those Test knives in the "ABS Style".

Just my opinion.

-Evan

Clean ricasso, defined plunge lines and a bolster or guard. A full tang, slab handled knife without a guard would be failed right off.

I think that accounts for why people would call those Test knives in the "ABS Style".

Just my opinion.

-Evan

There is a rule that every presentation knife must be fitted with a guard or bolsters, so the full tang with slab handles and neither a guard nor bolsters would not be eligible to present. However, the lack of plunge cuts and a ricasso, I think is a matter of debate. I can think of a couple of presentation sets that had integral designs which lack both (unless you call that sloping section onto the integral portion the plunge cuts). Like Kevin said above. I think there are several aspects and design elements that you are going to be expected to execute, and execute well.

Maybe that's the "ABS style"

There is a rule that every presentation knife must be fitted with a guard or bolsters, so the full tang with slab handles and neither a guard nor bolsters would not be eligible to present. However, the lack of plunge cuts and a ricasso, I think is a matter of debate. I can think of a couple of presentation sets that had integral designs which lack both (unless you call that sloping section onto the integral portion the plunge cuts). Like Kevin said above. I think there are several aspects and design elements that you are going to be expected to execute, and execute well.

Maybe that's the "ABS style

My set had two knives with out "plunges" a integral and a chef. I considered the chef a bit of a risk so I made sure I had several in my set that showed I could do what was expected. I had three knives in my set that were the "ABS Style" as I saw it at the time.

after going through the test for JS, I realized for me it was about making your knives with intent and having control over what you are making. This was an important take away for me it has informed and changed how I work. Mace gave me some great advice when I was working on my set, I had a small bowie blade I was working on, I couldn't decide if i wanted to do a swage on the clip. i figured leaving it off would be easier, I showed it to mace and he said, "look at it , if it looks like something is missing or it is wrong then it is." the rest of the build i looked at the knives with that in mind and it helped me to see what was needed and what was gilding the lily.

MP

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My set had two knives with out "plunges" a integral and a chef. I considered the chef a bit of a risk so I made sure I had several in my set that showed I could do what was expected. I had three knives in my set that were the "ABS Style" as I saw it at the time.

after going through the test for JS, I realized for me it was about making your knives with intent and having control over what you are making. This was an important take away for me it has informed and changed how I work. Mace gave me some great advice when I was working on my set, I had a small bowie blade I was working on, I couldn't decide if i wanted to do a swage on the clip. i figured leaving it off would be easier, I showed it to mace and he said, "look at it , if it looks like something is missing or it is wrong then it is." the rest of the build i looked at the knives with that in mind and it helped me to see what was needed and what was gilding the lily.

MP

Matthew, thanks for jumping in this discussion. Your set was one of the sets I had in mind when I made the comment. Actually, your set really perked my interest in maybe going for JS. I thought your set was one of the most stylistically varied JS sets I had seen and it made me think about what was possible and acceptable for submittal. I think people outside the ABS have this idea that ABS smiths only make a certain type of knife. You are one of the ABS smiths (although there are many) who routinely prove them incorrect.

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You are one of the ABS smiths (although there are many) who routinely prove them incorrect.

Tru dat.

-Evan

thanks.. I think..looking back on ho I got to where I am it was a harder road than it needed to be , but it has lent me slightly different perspective on things. that perspective informs my work so I can't but be thank full for the route I ended up on.

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thanks.. I think..looking back on ho I got to where I am it was a harder road than it needed to be , but it has lent me slightly different perspective on things. that perspective informs my work so I can't but be thank full for the route I ended up on.

It was intended as a compliment. A harder road? Hmm maybe one not so well travelled as others, but it got you where you are now. Ask yourself if it was worth the effort. Did you enjoy the journey? <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Keep on truckin' Matthew. You give folks like me a fair bit of inspiration.